The Draft

[dUSt]

Become priests instead.

[Iacobus]

IronMonk, yes there are some Dems who want a draft. You know why? They think we are too gung ho about war and maybe if everyone (Rich, Poor, CEO, Lineworker, Presendient, intern) had a kid in the army they would be a little less gung ho and really think about it.

I think a draft is apporaching. And so do the majority of highschool grads. In fact Bush has done something no presdent has done for a long time, 2/3 of all high school stundents are worried about the future and think it hangs on who wins the White House this fall. I am not sure that number is good for Bush... but I think it is good for America.

There has been a lot of speculation about a draft next spring. Calling up the ready reseverse was one. The armed forces are streched thin, we all know that. We are pulling troops out of Korea because we don't have enought for Iraq.

Part of the problem is that Rumsfeld tried to restrutce the army. It used to be set up to fight two wars on different sides of the goble at any one time. It had been this way senice World War II. The Bush Admin thought that was stupid. I guess they are paying for it in Iraq, Afganastan, and Korea. We don't have the numbers to do the Nation Building, which Bush promised to keep out of in his campgin, that we are engaging in.

I see a draft soon. And I am going to try and get CO status because I disagree with Iraq, which is sucking up a huge part of the numbers. I have already started to look at what I need for it. It was what my dad got during Nam, he spent 2 or 3 years working in a State Mental Health Ward.

I won't duck my duty, but I won't go into arms. I could never live with myself for shooting at another living human.

[Iacobus]

From sss.gov on the statuses

[quote]Men are not classified now. Classification is the process of determining who is available for military service and who is deferred or exempted. Classifications are based on each individual registrant's circumstances and beliefs. A classification program would go into effect when Congress and the President decide to resume a draft. Then, men who are qualified for induction would have the opportunity to file a claim for exemptions, deferments, and postponements from military service. Here is a list of some, though not all, classifications and what they mean:

1-A - available immediately for military service.

1-O Conscientious Objector- conscientiously opposed to both types (combatant and non-combatant) of military training and service - fulfills his service obligation as a civilian alternative service worker.

1-A-O Conscientious Objector - conscientiously opposed to training and military service requiring the use of arms - fulfills his service obligation in a noncombatant position within the military.

2-D Ministerial Students - deferred from military service.

3-A Hardship Deferment - deferred from military service because service would cause hardship upon his family.

4-C Alien or Dual National - sometimes exempt from military service.

4-D Ministers of Religion - exempted from military service.

Student Postponements - a college student may have his induction postponed until he finishes the current semester or, if a senior, the end of the academic year. A high school student may have his induction postponed until he graduates or until he reaches age 20. Appealing a Classification - A man may appeal his classification to a Selective Service Appeal Board.
[/quote]

[BullnaChinaShop]

[quote name='Iacobus' date='Aug 19 2004, 01:18 PM'] There has been a lot of speculation about a draft next spring. Calling up the ready reseverse was one. The armed forces are streched thin, we all know that. We are pulling troops out of Korea because we don't have enought for Iraq.

Part of the problem is that Rumsfeld tried to restrutce the army. It used to be set up to fight two wars on different sides of the goble at any one time. It had been this way senice World War II. The Bush Admin thought that was stupid. I guess they are paying for it in Iraq, Afganastan, and Korea. We don't have the numbers to do the Nation Building, which Bush promised to keep out of in his campgin, that we are engaging in. [/quote]
Bush is not responsible for reducing the military to its current state. During the Clinton administration our military was cut dramatically from its Cold War state. The military was already cut in strength from the two war model before Bush even entered office. The restructuring that Rumsfeld has been undertaking is to make our current force more effective not to reduce out current force.

[Iacobus]

[quote name='BullnaChinaShop' date='Aug 19 2004, 01:38 PM'] During the Clinton administration our military was cut dramatically from its Cold War state. [/quote]
Yeh... The Cold War was over we really didn't need all that stuff. After WWII did we need those huge navies and armies and air groups and factories making bombs etc? He cut spending on the armed forces because we didn't need 5,000 new tanks. The Russians weren't going to over run Europe. We didn't need all that stuff. Cutting it made sense. So I am not sure what your arguement hinges on there.

Rummy was the 1st one to really bring up the re strutering thing in, I think, 2001.

[BullnaChinaShop]

[quote name='Iacobus' date='Aug 19 2004, 02:27 PM'] Yeh... The Cold War was over we really didn't need all that stuff. After WWII did we need those huge navies and armies and air groups and factories making bombs etc? He cut spending on the armed forces because we didn't need 5,000 new tanks. The Russians weren't going to over run Europe. We didn't need all that stuff. Cutting it made sense. So I am not sure what your arguement hinges on there.

Rummy was the 1st one to really bring up the re strutering thing in, I think, 2001.[/quote]
My point is that you made it sound like Bush was responsible for cutting the military down through Rumsfelds retructuring which was not correct.
[quote]Part of the problem is that Rumsfeld tried to restrutce the army. It used to be set up to fight two wars on different sides of the goble at any one time. It had been this way senice World War II. The Bush Admin thought that was stupid. I guess they are paying for it in Iraq, Afganastan, and Korea. We don't have the numbers to do the Nation Building, which Bush promised to keep out of in his campgin, that we are engaging in. [/quote]
If you reread what I quoted you will see how the way you ran your statements together made me think you meant this. If this is not what you meant then what did you mean.

[Iacobus]

[quote name='BullnaChinaShop' date='Aug 19 2004, 02:45 PM'] My point is that you made it sound like Bush was responsible for cutting the military down through Rumsfelds retructuring which was not correct. [/quote]
Rummy wasn't the one to cut it. Clinton cut it rightly so. We didn't need an army that big. But Rummy started to push to restrutuce the army saying the two front war model was out of date. That we wouldn't be involded in two "real (big numbers like Iraq and Afganastan) wars" at any one time. That is what I mean. And now we are in two big real wars and we don't have the troops. Light forces are good except when heavy forces are needed.

[BullnaChinaShop]

[quote name='Iacobus' date='Aug 19 2004, 03:41 PM'] Rummy wasn't the one to cut it. Clinton cut it rightly so. We didn't need an army that big. But Rummy started to push to restrutuce the army saying the two front war model was out of date. That we wouldn't be involded in two "real (big numbers like Iraq and Afganastan) wars" at any one time. That is what I mean. And now we are in two big real wars and we don't have the troops. Light forces are good except when heavy forces are needed. [/quote]
The two front war model is outdated. Your comments on light forces and heavy forces show a lack of understanding of the current situations in Iraq and Afganistan as well as a total misunderstanding of the purpose of Rumsfeld's restructuring. Actions in Afganistan are almost exclusivly light troops with air support searching the moountainous regions for terrorists. Iraq is past the point of needing large amounts of heavy forces. Heavy forces in Iraq at this point would be like using a machete when a scalpel is needed.

Rumsfelds restructuring has more to do with the weapons systems aquired for the next generation military and has mostly focused on canceling programs left over from the Cold War era that are useless against the threats the US faces in the future. There is no less a supply of heavy troops to call on than when Bush entered office.

[Phazzan]

[quote name='MC Just' date='Aug 19 2004, 11:24 AM'] throw me in jail i refuse to fight for a country that let's planned parenthood live on... [/quote]
That's weak. Your country calls you up for national duty, you go, no questions asked.

[MC Just]

[quote name='Phazzan' date='Aug 20 2004, 08:16 AM'] That's weak.  Your country calls you up for national duty, you go, no questions asked. [/quote]
Weak huh? Because I refuse to protect a country that does nothing but batter my Faith and kill innocent human beings? I will go to war when Planned parenthood is ended and the Church does something about the liberals and secularists who are trying to destroy our 2000 year old faith...

Edited August 20, 2004 by MC Just

[MC Just]

That's just how I feel and go ahead tell me how it's against Church teachings.

[Phazzan]

[quote name='Iacobus' date='Aug 19 2004, 01:18 PM'] I could never live with myself for shooting at another living human. [/quote]
Why not?

I don't think any rational human being would take pride in killing another human, but unfortuantly that's the world we live in. History/Evolution etc is proof that when attacked we must [i]kill[/i] in order to survive. I'm not trying to cut you down, all I'm saying is in wartime it's irrelevent whether or not you could live with yourself for shooting at another human, but it may be necessary.

[MC Just]

Sorry lil red didnt mean to turn this into a debate or anything..

[Phazzan]

[quote name='MC Just' date='Aug 20 2004, 08:22 AM'] Weak huh? Because I refuse to protect a country that does nothing but batter my Faith and kill innocent human beings? I will go to war when Planned parenthood is ended and the Church does something about the liberals and secularists who are trying to destroy our 2000 year old faith... [/quote]
I notice you have no problem taking refuge in this nation of yours that does nothing but supposedly "batter" your faith and kill innocent human beings. Perhaps you should realise and appreciate what your forefathers paid for with their own blood, [b]your[/b] freedom. Yes, that freedom you take for granted everyday was won by men who fought and died for it.

I also believe it's against Church teachings. Romans says to obey the authority. Now the authority back in Pauls day was just as morally corrupt and evil as it is today, but we are still commanded to respect and obey it. So unless a war or draft could be seen as in direct contravention of God's Word, I think to put your country to shame like that would be mortal sin.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='MC Just' date='Aug 20 2004, 07:44 AM'] Sorry lil red didnt mean to turn this into a debate or anything.. [/quote]
it's alright, i'm used to it.