cmotherofpirl Posted September 16, 2003 Share Posted September 16, 2003 WE agree Steve. At our particular judgement when we die, God will show us the consequences of all our actions. Since we want our children to be able to enjoy heaven, we baptise our babies, so if something goes terribly wrong, we are assured to meet them if we get there as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skuba steve Posted September 16, 2003 Share Posted September 16, 2003 ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted September 16, 2003 Share Posted September 16, 2003 (edited) Sickness and death are the result of the FAll. My vote too. However, there are certain instances in which it is due to ourselves: lung cancer and heart disease as a result of smoking... liver damage due to excessive drinking... babies born with cocaine addictions as a result of their mother's drug use... health problems due to pollution... STDs due to having sex with people we shouldn't be having sex with AIDS due to the above as well as sharing needles... Now some (if not much) is due to sinful behavior, so I guess that can be traced back to the devil. But the bottom line: there is so much that is controllable by ourselves!! Edited September 16, 2003 by Norseman82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Huether Posted September 16, 2003 Share Posted September 16, 2003 My vote too. However, there are certain instances in which it is due to ourselves: lung cancer and heart disease as a result of smoking... liver damage due to excessive drinking... babies born with cocaine addictions as a result of their mother's drug use... health problems due to pollution... STDs due to having sex with people we shouldn't be having sex with AIDS due to the above as well as sharing needles... Now some (if not much) is due to sinful behavior, so I guess that can be traced back to the devil. But the bottom line: there is so much that is controllable by ourselves!! Smoking and drinking and doing drugs wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the fall. So back to the original statement, "Sickness and death are the result fo the fall." :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReformationNow Posted September 16, 2003 Share Posted September 16, 2003 Some sickness does come from God. And some from the devil. But most is just a result of the Fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted September 16, 2003 Share Posted September 16, 2003 Smoking and drinking and doing drugs wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the fall. So back to the original statement, "Sickness and death are the result fo the fall." That is true, as I pointed out that much of that is sinful in its own right. I just wanted to point out that some things can be controlled (like the examples I posted), whereas some may be beyond our control (old age ailments, common cold, babies dying from SIDS, etc.). Maybe I should clarify that those things that are beyond our control can only be attributed to the fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted September 16, 2003 Share Posted September 16, 2003 The Devil's only gift to man is telemarketers. Contrary to the belief that lawyers are also from the Devil, which actually evolved from walking catfish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted September 16, 2003 Share Posted September 16, 2003 I think you just insulted the catfish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McSockPuppet Posted September 16, 2003 Share Posted September 16, 2003 I think JOB is a perfect example. He was totured by THE DEVIL. He was given diseases from THE DEVIL. The Catholic Church commits a sacrament to healing. The annoiting of the sick. I hope this stuff was not already said..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theologian in Training Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 (edited) A certain saint said that the closer we get to the sun the more we feel the heat. So too with God, the closer we come to God the more we suffer, it is what has been true of every saint. Many like to think that it is the Christian's way of justifying weakness, when it is more God giving us the opportunity to find ourselves either on, near, or below Christ on the cross. Christ is our model, our example, the example He laid out for us was not that of comfort and frolicking in the fields frittering the days away in quiet seclusion of our own pleasures and enjoyments. He requires much of us, and rightly so, for is a human relationship is demanding, how much more a supernatural relationship? We all seem to have this view that suffering is to be avoided because it causes too much pain, and, quite frankly, it hurts, and who wants to hurt in this day and age of technology and drugs that take away the slightest pinch? When Christ told us to take up our cross He meant it, how many of us gladly take up that cross? No, it is not easy, and no one wants it, you'd be a masochist if you did. Yet, someone like Padre Pio actually wanted the pain, not because he was a masochist, but because he had a depth of spirit far greater than myself and others. He said that the reason he wants the cross is because it is in the pain that he experienced God's greatest love. Rightly so, when we are sick, our mother is there to comfort us, how much more He who freely took up the cross sees us do the same. He wants to comfort us, in His own way and in His own time. The greatest mystery and scandal that we still have today is the cross. That is not meant to sound like high spiritual insight, no, it is a fundamental truth, of not just Catholicism but of the entire world, spiritual and secular. Who wants the cross, who wants to suffer? No one, and yet we do, and in that suffering experience a greater love than when we were well. Why? Because it is through that suffering that we draw nearer and nearer to the cross, we are akin to the criminal on the cross next to Jesus, we are next to Him, witnessing His suffering, and we see our own as nothing in comparison. I think probably the greatest scandal of the cross is that it reveals to us a reality that we don't want to admit to: we will all die one day, and we may experience great pain and suffering in that death. Suddenly confronted with that reality, we don't see our life in the same light, nor do we experience reality in the same way, for how can we, always having the reality of our own death and the death of Christ before us? Granted, suffering is inDouche the result of the Fall, but that does not mean that through that suffering we cannot be transformed and sanctified into Christ. Padre Pio said it well when he spoke of the relief given to Jesus when the person not only laments Jesus' suffering but "when he finds a soul who, for his sake, asks not only for consolation, but even to be allowed to participate in his same sufferings..." (Letters I, pgs 304-335) God Bless Edited September 17, 2003 by Theologian in Training Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmjtina Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 Padre Pio also said that he suffers when he doesn't suffer! What is great about suffering is that we can offer them up! We can cling to Christ! My little 8 year old brother already offers up his scrapes and brusies for the Souls in Purgatory! B) Kids are the cutest things! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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