Rainbows..

[Chastisement]

I have real issues with the story of Noah. As a former history and classics student I always wonder if God flooded the whole world, why are there no referances in ancient cultures, ie. Asian, Pacific Islands, Ancient Egyptain. I mean, a world flood has to be hard to miss.

Now according to historical geographical records there was a huge Tsumai around the time of the flood, so in all likihood, bibical refereances to this "world" flood are talking about this wave.

My other problem with this stems from my scientific and logical mind, animals from Aussie and NZ exist only in those countries, so how then, did Noah get his hands on two of each animal and specieis from the entire contentant?

Also, I have issues with limited gene pools, how can two animals spawn millions? How was Noah able to discern what animals had no flaws visiable only on a genetic level, and in which case recessive. Two animals could have Dominant-Rescessive and the D genes the only ones showing, but their offspring woudl have a 50% chance of displaying and inheiriting the deformity, thus, destorying the surivival abilities of the specieis.

Also, how big was Noah's family, how many people were taken on board. If it was only a small number, and they were all family, how in the universe did they breed humanity without incest?

As for rainbows, I don't really know, I've never really beleieved the entiriety of the Noah saga, and I think more about how it happened, rather then a rainbow.

[Cure of Ars]

I have real issues with the story of Noah. As a former history and classics student I always wonder if God flooded the whole world, why are there no referances in ancient cultures, ie. Asian, Pacific Islands, Ancient Egyptain. I mean, a world flood has to be hard to miss.

Now according to historical geographical records there was a huge Tsumai around the time of the flood, so in all likihood, bibical refereances to this "world" flood are talking about this wave.

My other problem with this stems from my scientific and logical mind, animals from Aussie and NZ exist only in those countries, so how then, did Noah get his hands on two of each animal and specieis from the entire contentant?

Also, I have issues with limited gene pools, how can two animals spawn millions? How was Noah able to discern what animals had no flaws visiable only on a genetic level, and in which case recessive. Two animals could have Dominant-Rescessive and the D genes the only ones showing, but their offspring woudl have a 50% chance of displaying and inheiriting the deformity, thus, destorying the surivival abilities of the specieis.

Also, how big was Noah's family, how many people were taken on board. If it was only a small number, and they were all family, how in the universe did they breed humanity without incest?

As for rainbows, I don't really know, I've never really beleieved the entiriety of the Noah saga, and I think more about how it happened, rather then a rainbow.

I don’t really know if Noah is to be taken literally or not. But there should not be a problem if it is literal. It is called a miracle and by definition it cannot be explained by science. Explain the virgin birth, the resurrection, how did God make the universe out of nothing? Noah’s ark is not anymore miraculous than these miracles.

Actually, I think historically most ancient cultures do talk about a great flood. In fact if I remember right the story of Noah is very similar to a flood story from a different culture but I would have to go back to look this up.

The gene pool issue should not be a big deal as well. From the science classes that I have taken the story is that they have traced genes down to one female from Africa. I would have to look this up as well. And if you think about it the human race had to start with one man and one woman. I don't think that evolutionally a whole bunch of male and female humans just came to be all at the same time.

[Dave]

It's actually Church teaching that all humans descended from 1 man and woman.

[Norseman82]

Remember that there was a "firmament" of water between the earth and the heavens that collapsed during the flood.

PedroX,

You are the second person to mention this. In Genesis 7, as SkubaSteve said, the floodgates were opened. But in Genesis 8, they were closed, that is how the rain stopped. Nothing about a firmament collapsing.

Would you please explain where this "collapsing firmament" theory comes from? I am curious, as this discussion occurred on CycleForums and even one of my non-Catholic associates was unfamiliar with the "collapsing firmament" theory.

Here is another possible explanation: the pre-history accounts in Genesis could just be a way of speaking to ancients in a way that they could understand. Does this mean that God is lying? No! Of course not, just like it is not lying to describe angels as "birdies" to small children.

Edited September 16, 2003 by Norseman82

[skuba steve]

of course no other cultures mention it, only 7 jewish ppl survived... all the other cultures perished.

[Norseman82]

Actually, I think historically most ancient cultures do talk about a great flood.  In fact if I remember right the story of Noah is very similar to a flood story from a different culture but I would have to go back to look this up.

Some people say that this is a sign that the bible borrows from myths from other cultures. Here is an alternate explanation: if several cultures report something similar in the past (like a flood), then there must be something to it.....

[Cure of Ars]

of course no other cultures mention it, only 7 jewish ppl survived... all the other cultures perished.

If everyone descended from Noah you would think that this story would be retained in the different cultures that were decedents of this event. That is if the story is literal.

[Cure of Ars]

Some people say that this is a sign that the bible borrows from myths from other cultures. Here is an alternate explanation: if several cultures report something similar in the past (like a flood), then there must be something to it.....

Coud be

[Joolye]

I agree with Freaky Chik and Steve, that it never rained before the flood. (Must be a protestant teaching!) And about those underwater springs, I don't know much, but I know that in Australia we have water underground in The Great Artesian Basin. That's the water that I drink - 'bore water'. Smells like rotten eggs/sulphur and comes out of the cold tap warm, especially in summer.

[cmotherofpirl]

THe first chapters of Genesis ( Gen 1:1 to 11:26) are prehistory. THey could be called the first stage of man. THey are stories that teach us the religious truth of our world: God is the absolute Creator. He made everything and it was good, He also made man in his image and likeness. Man chose to look to himself instead of God, and all his descendants and Creation suffers as a result. It also explains our present realities: why we have sin and death, pain suffering etc.

THe second stage of man, is the origin and development of the chosen people (11:27 to 50:26), until they setttle in Egypt. Exodus continues their story. This part of Genesis is history with definite geographical and historical information from around 18th century BC.

Genesis is the prologue to the Exodus, which is the most important story in the Old Testament.

[Jake Huether]

These are some great answers. Thank you guys.

On the "insest" thing. I don't think at the begining of humanity that "insest" was looked upon as it is today. There were not as many diseases in the first place, much less "resessive" (sp?). So, physically, it wasn't "bad" (or as bad I guess). And anyway - I think Noah brought his wife with his two kids and their wives. Or something. It wasn't like only Noah's blood was on board. I might be wrong...

[cmotherofpirl]

Its a teaching story...

[cmotherofpirl]

Jake,

my answer would be number 4.  Remember that there was a "firmament" of water between the earth and the heavens that collapsed during the flood.  I've heard that this firmament contributed to the "rain forest" like conditions that allowed the dinosaurs to live.  Of course this is all speculative science at best, but just my $.02

peace...

Genesis 1 6-8

In line with early cultues of their time, the early Hebrews taught that rain came form huge containers of water in the vault of heraven: when the trapdoors were opened, the rain poured down.

What it says here that God seperated the waters which were about the firmament from those below, what is being taught is that God imposed order on the natural world and is responsible for the phenomenon of rain. It is also making it clear fromthe onset that the firmamentt must not be thought to involve any divinity, the firmament is part of the created world.

In the first creation story ( Genesis 1:1 to 2:4)God talks about plants, then man.

In the second Creation story (Genesis2:4) God makes man, then plants a garden and puts man in it.

Something besides a river hads to be watering the plants.

When God in Genesis (6:17) talks about a flood of waters he is talking about undoing creation itself, a return to chaos.

In genesis (9:1) God is literally starting over: a new creation, a new covanant with mankind.

Other ancient cultures have stories of a flood, but the Bible only says the flood is a result of sin, and He can takes us out and start over with a remnant.

[jmjtina]

As Augustine put it, "One does not read in the Gospel that the Lord said: ‘I will send you the Paraclete who will teach you about the course of the sun and moon.’ For he willed to make them Christians, not mathematicians." ;)

[Cure of Ars]

Cool quote jmjtina.