Ziggamafu Posted August 22, 2004 Author Share Posted August 22, 2004 Thanks very much - especially for phat's post. It helped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted August 23, 2004 Share Posted August 23, 2004 did it answer all ur questions? do you have any more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggamafu Posted August 25, 2004 Author Share Posted August 25, 2004 [b]So when is an Act of Contrition enough? How do you conclusively know? What does an A.O.C. cover that needs not be covered by Confession? Are the A.O.C.'s even necessary, then?[/b] A Deacon I know told me that sexual sins are "the least of the sins" and that things like masturbation are "the least of the least" and that this is the view promulgated by our current Pope. This seems contradictory to the CCC, which says something to the effect of masturbation being a grave matter... By no means throughout this entire post have I been talking about merely sexual sins. I've been talking about passing by a begger on the street, for one. Or always going at least a few miles over the speed limit. Or not tithing in a few months. Or taking communion at a Protestant church. If mortal sins are as easily committed as the responses make them out, as common, and are as easily overlooked, then it would seem that "scruples" would be a good thing or at the very least there should be such a thing as 24 hour Confession access and once a week would not be enough for anyone... Everyone here has helped a lot and I'm not trying to re-open a can of worms, but... Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 [quote name='Ziggamafu' date='Aug 24 2004, 09:35 PM'] [b]So when is an Act of Contrition enough? How do you conclusively know? What does an A.O.C. cover that needs not be covered by Confession? Are the A.O.C.'s even necessary, then?[/b] [/quote] are these questions that remain unanswered? i thought i answered them already. [quote]If mortal sins are as easily committed as the responses make them out, as common, and are as easily overlooked, then it would seem that "scruples" would be a good thing or at the very least there should be such a thing as 24 hour Confession access and once a week would not be enough for anyone...[/quote] your words here tell me that you may not have understood my post. mortal sins are not easily committed. i don't see anyone here saying that they are so easy. maybe you could quote our words so that i know what you are latching on to. likewise, mortal sins are neither common nor overlooked. this is largely b/c it takes alot to sin so grievously. remember, i am talking not of "grave" sin, but instead "mortal" sin. you understand the difference right? even grave sin is relatively rare, since it is so serious in nature. add to gravity the two other qualifications for mortal sin (full knowledge and full consent of the will) and mortal sin becomes even more rare. see what i mean? holla back, phatcatholic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggamafu Posted August 25, 2004 Author Share Posted August 25, 2004 eh. i guess i'm just fishing for divine revelation. as i said before, your posts explain things well enough. i think my problem is (as my pastor has pointed out) i am fairly obsessed with everything being black and white. where grays exist, or where i am left to decide on something of subjective nature, i kinda freak out if i can't pin it down with absolutes proven from dogmatic teaching or the Bible. this is my probably one of those cases... although i have fallen under the "already catechized" category through independent studies, my pastor has told me he wants me to wait to be confirmed anyway because of my attitude in coming into the Church. i want everything to be a neat and tidy package with labels on everything and no grey areas. since i felt this was more so the case with Catholicism, since it has the divine promises attached to its teaching, i was naturally drawn to it. however, as my pastor has told me, the Church is far from a neat and tidy package. there are as many interpretations of catechism in the clergy as there are interpretations of the Bible in protestant denominations... oh! i have a question. say i need confession, due to mortal sin, and don't make it to confession on saturday. or say i dont bother seeking out a church that offers it on a sooner day. if i die, i desired it - but come on, if i did EVERYTHING in my power to go, i would have made it somewhere. kind of like daily mass. [b]how far does desire cover you?[/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 [quote name='Ziggamafu' date='Aug 25 2004, 03:26 AM']oh! i have a question. say i need confession, due to mortal sin, and don't make it to confession on saturday. or say i dont bother seeking out a church that offers it on a sooner day. if i die, i desired it - but come on, if i did EVERYTHING in my power to go, i would have made it somewhere. kind of like daily mass. [b]how far does desire cover you?[/b][/quote] A [i]perfect act of contrition[/i] will remit mortal sins, but for an act of contrition to be perfect it is required that the act [i]be made for the love of God[/i], and not out of fear of punishment, and it must include a ". . . [i]firm resolution to have recourse to sacramental confession as soon as possible[/i]." [[u]Catechism of the Catholic Church[/u], no. 1452] Now, if either of these things are missing, it follows that the act of contrition made is not perfect and would not forgive mortal sins. Moreover, if the man in question didn't go to confession,[i] through his own fault[/i], then the act of contrition would not be perfect and it would not remit mortal sins. Remembering that God, who exists outside of time, knows every eventuality, if a man makes an act of contrition out of love of God alone, with the firm resolve to go to confession as soon as possible, and then [i]through his own fault[/i] never goes to confession, the act of contrition made would not be perfect. Now, [i]if through no fault of his own[/i], he was never able to avail himself of the sacrament of confession, because he died before he could make his confession, then his act of contrition would be perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 [quote name='Ziggamafu' date='Aug 24 2004, 07:35 PM']A Deacon I know told me that sexual sins are "the least of the sins" and that things like masturbation are "the least of the least" and that this is the view promulgated by our current Pope. This seems contradictory to the CCC, which says something to the effect of masturbation being a grave matter... [/quote] It's important to remember that priests and deacons are not members of the Magisterium, and so, their teaching is only authoritative if it accurately represents the teaching of the Church's Magisterium. In the case of this deacon, his views on masturbation are contrary to the teaching of the Church as expressed in the Catechism [cf. no 2352] and in several other documents of the Church's Magisterium, and so, one should not follow his views on this matter. God bless, Todd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 [quote name='Ziggamafu' date='Aug 25 2004, 03:26 AM'][H]owever, as my pastor has told me, the Church is far from a neat and tidy package. there are as many interpretations of catechism in the clergy as there are interpretations of the Bible in protestant denominations...[/quote] The sole authentic interpreter of the word of God, whether in scripture or tradition, is the Magisterium. [cf. Vatican 2, [u]Dei Verbum[/u], no. 10] So, if a priest, or any other person for that matter, promotes a doctrinal position that disagrees with, or fails to fully convey, the teaching of the Church, it follows that one is obliged to reject the erroneous teaching in favor of the authentic teaching of the Church's Magisterium. No one is bound to accept the interpretations given by a parish priest, unless they are in agreement with the teaching of the Magisterium; and in fact, if a parish priest teaches something that is clearly in opposition to the Church's defined doctrine, one is required to reject that priest's views in favor of the authentic teaching of the Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 [quote name='Ziggamafu' date='Aug 25 2004, 05:26 AM'] oh! i have a question. say i need confession, due to mortal sin, and don't make it to confession on saturday. or say i dont bother seeking out a church that offers it on a sooner day. if i die, i desired it - but come on, if i did EVERYTHING in my power to go, i would have made it somewhere. kind of like daily mass. [b]how far does desire cover you?[/b] [/quote] as apotheoun pointed out, the lack of receiving the sacrament before your death has to be [i][b]of no fault of your own[/b][/i] in order to avoid the consequences. for example, if there was no priest available until saturday and you died before saturday, your prayer to God for forgiveness and your desire for the sacrament would save you b/c it was not your fault that you didn't receive the sacrament. however, if you needed only to call upon a priest or go to a different church but chose not to b/c this was an inconvenience, then your lack of receiving the sacrament before death [i][b]was your fault[/b][/i]. therefore, you would incur the penalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellenita Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 This thread has been really helpful - thanks! :wub: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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