Liturgical Abuse

[Fides_et_Ratio]

Thanks, fixed 'em. Any other suggestions?


Anyone?

[phatcatholic]

fides,

to follow up on polar bear's advice, i wanted to go ahead and type out a few options you have to make paragraph one more clear:

--The liturgical issues about which I am questioning do not appear to follow the norms set forth by the Church, norms which, to my understanding, make a large difference in the celebration of the Sacred Liturgy. As the Holy Father puts it, “These norms are a concrete expression of the authentically ecclesial nature of the Eucharist; this is their deepest meaning” (Ecclesia de Eucharistia, 52).

or

--The liturgical issues about which I am questioning do not appear to follow the norms set forth by the Church. These norms, to my understanding, make a large difference in the celebration of the Sacred Liturgy. As the Holy Father puts it, “These norms are a concrete expression of the authentically ecclesial nature of the Eucharist; this is their deepest meaning” (Ecclesia de Eucharistia, 52).


notice not only the correction of the fragment, but also the addition of a comma after the word "understanding" to set apart the prepositional phrase.

also, i agree w/ polar about taking out the sentence where you take offense to what he is doing. this takes the focus off of you, plus it prevents the pastor from possibly discreditting your letter once he finds out how hold you are. if you wish to totally hide your age, you could take out the word "younger" in your first sentence as well.

speaking of your first sentence, there's some things that i would change, but they are not necessary, so its up to you. i would add "who is" after the word "Parish" so that the attaction to the liturgy is yours and not the church's. also in your first sentence, i would replace "yet also" with "and." a phrase like "yet also" implies that the two feelings are opposite, but "curious" and "concerned" are rather similar. again, i'm just being picky.

everything else looks good i hope this helps

pax christi,
phatcatholic

[Fides_et_Ratio]

Thanks, phat! I made the changes p0lar suggested.. and took yours as well. I'm very appreciative of your help!


Although, he already knows who I am (after I tried talking to him before), so I'm sure as soon as he even begins to read it, he'll know exactly who I am. And I don't think I need to conceal my age for that reason-- as soon as he talks to the pastor about it (which, hopefully he does) he'll know a little more about me (and know that I [u]am[/u] a force to be reckoned with! ). I took out a lot of the forcefulness and 'accusations', as well as the forwarding of it to the pastor (all before I let you guys read it), in hopes that I sound a bit more friendly and that the associate pastor will take the initiative on his own to shape up. The pastor is somewhat aware of the situation, and a good priest, so I'm not too worried about my parish. But I just don't feel that I could remain silent and keep a calm conscience.

And hey, if I tick him off.. I leave in a week for Europe!

I think I want to add more regarding the Eucharistic Prayer for Children. Something about how there's not a need for it, when the average age of the daily Mass crowd is (generously) 30+ .



But here is the most current version:

**** ******* ******* *****
********, Ohio *****
August 20, 2004



Father ****** *******
Associate Pastor, Saint ******* Church
*** ****** ****
********, Ohio *****

Dear Father *******:

As a younger member of Saint *******’s Parish who is very much attracted to the Liturgy of the Church, I am curious, and also concerned about a few liturgical practices I have noticed when attending your celebration of the Mass. The liturgical issues about which I am questioning do not appear to follow the norms set forth by the Church. These norms, to my understanding, make a large difference in the celebration of the Sacred Liturgy. As the Holy Father puts it, “These norms are a concrete expression of the authentically ecclesial nature of the Eucharist; this is their deepest meaning” (Ecclesia de Eucharistia, 52).

Please do not take this as any sort of personal attack. That is not my intention at all in writing this. If you find that my assertions are incorrect or out of line, I hope that you will not refrain from correcting my understanding.

To begin, I noticed that you have been using the second Eucharistic Prayer for Masses with Children in your celebration of the Masses that I’ve attended. It is my understanding that according to the United States Catholic Conference of Bishops (USCCB) this is improper, as during daily Mass there are not many children (if any) under a preadolescent age. It is also my understanding that the Eucharistic Prayers for Masses with Children were written for just that—Masses with children in high attendance (i.e., a school Mass), and that the prayers are written in a language easier for smaller children to understand.

I am also somewhat concerned by a few modifications to the wording of the Liturgy. I've noticed on several occasions that you did not follow the words provided in the Sacramentary, and especially in your use of the Eucharistic Prayer(s). I have understood the wording of the Liturgy to be of great importance as the prayer of the Church to God, and in my own life in relating to the Church as well. Most recently, Cardinal Arinze has said, “The liturgical words and rites, moreover, are a faithful expression, matured over the centuries, of the understanding of Christ, and they teach us to think as he himself does; by conforming our minds to these words, we raise our hearts to the Lord” (Redemptionis Sacramentum, 5). I cannot help but be concerned by alterations in the words of the Sacred Liturgy.

Though I will be leaving for college soon (and spending this next semester out of the country), I am still very much attached to my "home parish" and so only wish the greatest blessings and orthodoxy for Saint *******'s. I would greatly appreciate any feedback you might be willing to offer. In light of my upcoming departure (Sunday the 29th), you may feel free to reach me by e-mail: (e-mail address... not posting on internet because I don't want spam!)

Thank you for your time and consideration,



Jillian ******

[phatcatholic]

fides,

i also noticed that in your third paragraph, you state your conclusion ("this is improper") before you state one of the reasons for it being improper (it is worded w/ children in mind). so, you will need to switch these ideas. in doing so, your new paragraph will read as follows (i also did some slight rewording to make your ideas more succint):[list]
[*]To begin, I noticed that you have been using the second Eucharistic Prayer for Masses with Children in your celebration of the Masses that I’ve attended. It is my understanding that the Eucharistic Prayers for Masses with Children are only for Masses with children in high attendance (i.e., a school Mass), and that the prayers are written in a simpler style specifically for this particular audience. According to the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) your use of these prayers is improper, for during our daily Mass there are not many children (if any) in attendance.
[/list]also, note that it's the "Conference of Catholic" not the "Catholic Conference of" (as you originally wrote it). furthermore, since you state that the USCCB has deemed this practice "improper" you should include a citation to the reference where you are drawing this information. "improper" is a strong word, so he will most likely want to read the exact document where his actions are judged in such a way.

i don't think anything else should be added regarding his use of these prayers. the "improper" claim is strong enough to get the point across.

pax christi,
phatcatholic

[Fides_et_Ratio]

Yeah, thanks, phat, I replaced that paragraph and added at the end:

The USCCB quotes the 1974 decree of the Sacred Congregation for Divine worship, which confirms that, "use of a Eucharistic Prayer for Masses with Children is restricted to Masses that are celebrated with children alone or Masses at which the majority of the participants are children” (Postquam de Precibus, 4).


I am attending Mass tomorrow at my parish, because I'm fairly confident he has the 5pm Vigil Mass, and I'm going to double check (just to make sure I don't need to include anything about 'other-than-Eucharistic-Prayer' ad-libbing... I'm holding onto hope right now since he didn't do it today), and to make sure that he's been consistently using the second Eucharistic Prayer for Masses with Children as opposed to perhaps using some of the others. It was much easier to tell today when I had the words in front of me.
I talked to my youth minister earlier and she said the other day he actually used one of the 'normal' Eucharistic Prayers (she thinks) but he changed a LOT of it around, and the wording again. So if I can catch that myself, I'll include a small blurb about other Eucharistic Prayers as well. I just don't think it's fair to include something I wasn't personally party to.

[Fides_et_Ratio]

So now's here's the biggies. I went to Vigil for Sunday Mass tonight and he was the celebrant.
The letter is getting in his hands Monday (I have connections in the parish office! ). I found it HIGHLY amusing he said during his homily that he was a perfectionist...

Here are the abuses I noticed at this particular Mass. Some of these I may be being extremely picky on, perhaps you all might have suggestions as to what I should add to my letter:[list]
[*]During the opening prayer he said, "Let us pray that we may be made one in mind, one in heart..." and then then said the proper from the Sacramentary.

[*]Right before the Gospel reading, he said, "May the words of the Gospel be on our minds, our lips, and our hearts as we listen to a reading from the holy Gospel according to..." and so half the congregation was crossing their foreheads, lips, and heart as he was saying it, and the other half waited until the congregation responded "Glory to you, Lord"

[*]After his homily he closed the Gospel book (I'm not positive, but I thought I read somewhere it was to remain open for the remainder of Mass??)

[*]During the Creed he left out the word "men" (instead of saying "for us men and our salvation", 'men' as in 'mankind', he said, "for US and our salvation" accenting the 'US')

[*]During the "pray, brethren" he said, "Pray, my friends, that our sacrifice may be acceptable to our good and generous God."

[*]The Eucharistic Prayer was the third Eucharistic Prayer for Masses with Children, with an intense amount of ad-libbing (especially after the "Great Amen"... It wasn't anywhere in the Prayer, and I checked the other prayers, but then looked up at him and he wasn't even looking at the Sacramentary. And as usual, he cut out all the "children's responses" in the Prayer.

[*]He also significantly changed part of the prayer from "Father, we ask you to bless these gifts of bread and wine and make them holy.." to "Dear God please send the gift of your Spirit to bless this bread and wine and make it holy"

[*]Before the 'Our Father' he told us to "all join hands with those closest to us..." as we prayed

[*]During the prayer after Communion he added a few sentences to the proper.

[*]During the dismissal he said, "The Mass is ended, let us go in God's peace and hope for the New Jeruselem"
[/list]I think that's most everything.

Pretty much everything he ad-libbed to the propers related back to his homily, which, in a sense is a nice idea, except for the fact that it's entirely unnecessary. The Mass can stand fine on it's own.

So, so far I am most definitely including this Eucharistic Prayer in my letter, as even the Pastor told me that the "Eucharistic Prayers for Children are not to be used on Sundays or solemnities" (unless it's a specifically Children's Mass).

So I changed my letter a little bit:


**** ******* ******* *****
********, Ohio *****
August 20, 2004



Father ****** *******
Associate Pastor, Saint ******* Church
*** ****** ****
********, Ohio *****

Dear Father *******:

As a younger member of Saint *******’s Parish who is very much attracted to the Liturgy of the Church, I am curious, and also concerned about a few liturgical practices I have noticed when attending your celebration of the Mass. The liturgical issues about which I am questioning do not appear to follow the norms set forth by the Church. These norms, to my understanding, make a large difference in the celebration of the Sacred Liturgy. As the Holy Father puts it, “These norms are a concrete expression of the authentically ecclesial nature of the Eucharist; this is their deepest meaning” (Ecclesia de Eucharistia, 52).

Please do not take this as any sort of personal attack. That is not my intention at all in writing this. If you find that my assertions are incorrect or out of line, I hope that you will not refrain from correcting my understanding.

To begin, I noticed that you have been using the Eucharistic Prayers for Masses with Children in your celebration of the Masses that I’ve attended. It is my understanding that the Eucharistic Prayers for Masses with Children are only for Masses with children in high attendance (i.e., a school Mass), and that the prayers are written in a simpler style specifically for this particular audience. According to the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) your use of these prayers is improper, for during our daily Mass there are not many children (if any) in attendance. The USCCB quotes the 1974 decree of the Sacred Congregation for Divine worship, which confirms that, "use of a Eucharistic Prayer for Masses with Children is restricted to Masses that are celebrated with children alone or Masses at which the majority of the participants are children” (Postquam de Precibus, 4). Also, this past Sunday you used the third Eucharistic Prayer for Masses with Children, with some significant modifications to the wording, especially after the ‘Great Amen’.

I am also somewhat concerned by a few modifications to the wording of the Liturgy. I've noticed on several occasions that you did not follow the words provided in the Sacramentary, and especially in your use of the Eucharistic Prayer(s). I have understood the wording of the Liturgy to be of great importance as the prayer of the Church to God, and in my own life in relating to the Church as well. Most recently, Cardinal Arinze has said, “The liturgical words and rites, moreover, are a faithful expression, matured over the centuries, of the understanding of Christ, and they teach us to think as he himself does; by conforming our minds to these words, we raise our hearts to the Lord” (Redemptionis Sacramentum, 5). I cannot help but be concerned by alterations in the words of the Sacred Liturgy. And as well, the authority to change liturgical texts, to the best of my knowledge, depend solely on the Apostolic See and that “no one on personal authority may add, remove or change anything in them” (Code of Canon Law, 846). I know that this is also addressed in Sacrosantum Concilium (22;3).

Though I will be leaving for college soon (and spending this next semester out of the country), I am still very much attached to my "home parish" and so only wish the greatest blessings and orthodoxy for Saint *******'s. I would greatly appreciate any feedback you might be willing to offer. In light of my upcoming departure (Sunday the 29th), you may feel free to reach me by e-mail: (e-mail address... not posting on internet because I don't want spam!)

Thank you for your time and consideration,



Jillian ******




Any last minute suggestions?? Should I add more? Be more specific? Throw in some examples?


Also, I can't decide if I should or should not give a copy of the letter to the Pastor. On one hand, he is the pastor who oversees the parish and its inner workings. But on the other hand, I don't want to unnecessarily burden him. Should I send him a copy of the letter, with a brief introductory explaination attached? Or not worry about it/not bother him?

Thanks guys. You all have been tremendously helpful.

Edited August 21, 2004 by Fides_et_Ratio

[p0lar_bear]

I think the tone of your earlier letter was much better. This one is more accusatory and seems a bit document heavy...

[phatcatholic]

i think its just fine. its good to back up your claims with proof. its give your arguments more weight, and gives him a chance to really investigate this matter. i see nothing wrong w/ it.

i think you should give a copy to the pastor, just to acknowledge his authority and ensure that his is involved. you wouldn't want to give the impression that you are doing anything behind his back. i think its the polite thing to do, and i don't see it as an unnecessary burden.

that's my 0.02

[Fides_et_Ratio]

thanks, guys.

p0lar, I agreed with you at first (I actually began taking out all the document citations) but then I was afraid that my claims would look unsubstantiated. Is there a way I could word something better to make it sound less accusatory?

phat, should I add a small explanation for my pastor? Like, just type up a quick "cover page" that just explains why I'm sending him a copy? i.e., something like this:

August 22, 2004


Father ********,

I hope you don’t mind this slight intrusion. However, I felt you deserved a copy of this letter I addressed to Father ******* since you are Pastor of Saint *******’s. Since the Liturgy does indeed mean a great deal to me, I wanted to be sure to follow proper “protocol”.
When I first began noticing these adaptations to the Liturgy, many tried to convince me to just attend another parish, and I did try that for a while. But I have a deep appreciation for all the time I have spent at Saint *******’s these past two years or so, and I know that I have grown tremendously in my understanding and appreciation of the Catholic faith, and so I can’t imagine leaving Saint *******’s with my conscience unsettled.
I also extend the same offer I extended to Father ******* to you. That is, if you notice something that is incorrect or out of line, you will not hesitate to correct me. Thanks, Father, you have always been a great help.

Thank you, Jillian ******

Edited August 22, 2004 by Fides_et_Ratio

[phatcatholic]

i'm cool w/ that cover letter

[Theoketos]

[quote]Since the Liturgy does indeed mean a great deal to me, I wanted to be sure to follow proper “protocol”.[/quote]

First CLause is good, the second could be repharsed...


...I simply wish for God to honered appropreiately.

[Fides_et_Ratio]

[quote name='Theoketos' date='Aug 22 2004, 02:11 PM']
First CLause is good, the second could be repharsed...


...I simply wish for God to honered appropreiately. [/quote]
You wouldn't think it would sound offensive? I don't want it to seem as though I don't think he's doing a good job as pastor.

[Fides_et_Ratio]

So is this what I'm sending tomorrow? (actually, he'll get it tomorrow... I have a friend in the parish office who said she'd stick it in his box... and save me a stamp! or two!)

**** ******* ******* *****
********, Ohio *****
August 20, 2004



Father ****** *******
Associate Pastor, Saint ******* Church
*** ****** ****
********, Ohio *****

Dear Father *******:

As a younger member of Saint *******’s Parish who is very much attracted to the Liturgy of the Church, I am curious, and also concerned about a few liturgical practices I have noticed when attending your celebration of the Mass. The liturgical issues about which I am questioning do not appear to follow the norms set forth by the Church. These norms, to my understanding, make a large difference in the celebration of the Sacred Liturgy. As the Holy Father puts it, “These norms are a concrete expression of the authentically ecclesial nature of the Eucharist; this is their deepest meaning” (Ecclesia de Eucharistia, 52).

Please do not take this as any sort of personal attack. That is not my intention at all in writing this. If you find that my assertions are incorrect or out of line, I hope that you will not refrain from correcting my understanding.

To begin, I noticed that you have been using the Eucharistic Prayers for Masses with Children in your celebration of the Masses that I’ve attended. It is my understanding that the Eucharistic Prayers for Masses with Children are only for Masses with children in high attendance (i.e., a school Mass), and that the prayers are written in a simpler style specifically for this particular audience. According to the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) your use of these prayers is improper, for during our daily Mass there are not many children (if any) in attendance. The USCCB quotes the 1974 decree of the Sacred Congregation for Divine worship, which confirms that, "use of a Eucharistic Prayer for Masses with Children is restricted to Masses that are celebrated with children alone or Masses at which the majority of the participants are children” (Postquam de Precibus, 4). Also, this past Sunday you used the third Eucharistic Prayer for Masses with Children, with some significant modifications to the wording, especially after the ‘Great Amen’.

I am also somewhat concerned by a few modifications to the wording of the Liturgy. I've noticed on several occasions that you did not follow the words provided in the Sacramentary, and especially in your use of the Eucharistic Prayer(s). I have understood the wording of the Liturgy to be of great importance as the prayer of the Church to God, and in my own life in relating to the Church as well. Most recently, Cardinal Arinze has said, “The liturgical words and rites, moreover, are a faithful expression, matured over the centuries, of the understanding of Christ, and they teach us to think as he himself does; by conforming our minds to these words, we raise our hearts to the Lord” (Redemptionis Sacramentum, 5). I cannot help but be concerned by alterations in the words of the Sacred Liturgy. And as well, the authority to change liturgical texts, to the best of my knowledge, depend solely on the Apostolic See and that “no one on personal authority may add, remove or change anything in them” (Code of Canon Law, 846). I know that this is also addressed in Sacrosantum Concilium (22;3).

Though I will be leaving for college soon (and spending this next semester out of the country), I am still very much attached to my "home parish" and so only wish the greatest blessings and orthodoxy for Saint *******'s. I would greatly appreciate any feedback you might be willing to offer. In light of my upcoming departure (Sunday the 29th), you may feel free to reach me by e-mail: (e-mail address... not posting on internet because I don't want spam!)

Thank you for your time and consideration,



Jillian ******


And then the explanatory letter on the copy sent to my pastor:

Father ********,

I hope you don’t mind this slight intrusion. However, I felt you deserved a copy of this letter I addressed to Father ******* since you are Pastor of Saint *******’s. Since the Liturgy does indeed mean a great deal to me, I wanted to be sure to follow proper “protocol”.
When I first began noticing these adaptations to the Liturgy, many tried to convince me to just attend another parish, and I did try that for a while. But I have a deep appreciation for all the time I have spent at Saint *******’s these past two years or so, and I know that I have grown tremendously in my understanding and appreciation of the Catholic faith, and so I can’t imagine leaving Saint *******’s with my conscience unsettled.
I also extend the same offer I extended to Father ******* to you. That is, if you notice something that is incorrect or out of line, you will not hesitate to correct me. Thanks, Father, you have always been a great help.

Thank you, Jillian ******

[Fides_et_Ratio]

So, I was talking with a friend of mine in the seminary and he suggested that I make the letter to the associate pastor more "personal" and explain why it bothers me so much, etc. He also thought it was a bit document heavy, but didn't want me to take them out so much as reword some of my sentences...



Of course... the night before!! Oh well, I am going to start working on it some more, and thinking about taking his suggestions.

Any last minute ideas/suggestions/complaints/etc?!

[Fides_et_Ratio]

BUMP