Liturgical Abuse

[Fides_et_Ratio]

[quote name='p0lar_bear' date='Aug 18 2004, 01:59 PM']Simply refer to them as "modifications," "alterations," or "changes" in/to the wording.

Also, since this is your first letter to an associate pastor, you don't necessarily need a list of "you said xyz when you were supposed to say abc."

Start of with a more general "I've noticed on several occasions that you did not follow the words provided in the Sacramentary."  You can offer a couple of examples (really, pick the worst so it doesn't look petty), but don't necessarily include dates, etc.

Also, what part of the Eucharistic prayer do you think he is changing? I was just looking in the Sacramentary, and there are a lot of different options for the part before the Holy, Holy...so if it's then, he's probably OK.[/quote]
Thanks for the tips, I think I was planning to only quote the 'gravest' changes he makes. I also think your suggestions will help it sound less offensive. I was a little worried about that. I don't want to get him angry, I just wish he wouldn't ad-lib during the celebration of the Mass.




About the Eucharistic Prayer... it's EVERYTHING (except, "this is my body" "this is my blood", which I suppose I should be thankful for). I tried looking up every Eucharistic Prayer I could find, and all the prefaces, and nothing even remotely sounds familiar. He usually has to lead the congregation in the proper response because no one knows where he is.


Which is why I'm going on Friday since he has the Mass then, I can have all the options in front of me and try and find where he's coming from (i.e., if he's he basing a 'made-up' one off another one). And if not, check the Sacramentary again after Mass. And finally, attempt to ask him directly again.

Though, I'm not sure if the Eucharistic Prayers for Children I found are the ones in the Sacramentary... but they were the only ones I could find. So I'm hoping to double-check them with the Sacramentary (tomorrow when no one will be in the Chapel anyway) after my Dr.'s appt.




I'm off to a friend's for the night and into tomorrow. I should be back tomorrow afternoon. Thanks for all your help so far! (that goes for everyone who's responded)

[Fides_et_Ratio]

[quote name='p0lar_bear' date='Aug 18 2004, 02:06 PM'] Outside of Mass, yes, the roman collar (or habit for those in an order) is an identifying mark. During Mass, however, the alb, chausible, stole, etc. serve that purpose. The roman collar is not part of the required vestments for Mass.

Ecclesiastical dress is defined by the bishops (often as a conference, so in our case, the USCCB). [/quote]
So then, a priest could wear "street clothes" under his vestment, etc. for the Mass?

[p0lar_bear]

[quote name='Fides_et_Ratio' date='Aug 18 2004, 03:15 PM'] So then, a priest could wear "street clothes" under his vestment, etc. for the Mass? [/quote]
If the diocese allows it....it's not like someone isn't going to recognize him as a priest during Mass because he doesn't have the collar on.

[Theoketos]

It used to be that the Roman Collar was not to be seen under the vestment. We have some the covers for that in the Sacristy. I do not remember what they are called, but a few of the old monks still use them. I think the point of them was so that the under clothing would not take away from the vestments.

Polar do you know what I am talking about and what they are called?

Also, I would think that a polo sticking would be a distraction from the Liturgy, but it is not as illicit or scandalous as changing the liturgy.

[p0lar_bear]

off hand, I don't know...I'll see if I can find out though...

[Theoketos]

It is called the Amice

[url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01428c.htm"]http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01428c.htm[/url]

[phatcatholic]

here is what an amice looks like:

[img]http://www.probertencyclopaedia.com/j/Amice.jpg[/img]

i also found this information, which is interesting:

Vestment:
--Amice: The amice is a piece of fine linen in the form of an oblong. The priest places it for a moment on his head, and then allows it to rest upon his shoulders. As he does so he prays: “Place, O Lord, on my head the helmet of salvation, that so I may resist the assaults of the devil.”

Historical Origin:
--A covering for the head and neck worn like a hood. When indoors it was lowered and thrown over the shoulders.

Symbolic Reference:
--The linen cloth that the soldiers put over Our Lord’s head; when thus blindfolded. He was mockingly asked who struck Him.
--The helmet of Salvation (Cf. Ephes. 6:17)

from [url="http://www.truecatholic.org/massitems.htm"]http://www.truecatholic.org/massitems.htm[/url]

Edited August 19, 2004 by phatcatholic

[p0lar_bear]

OK, the fact that you used truecatholic.org as a reference...

[kateri05]

[quote name='p0lar_bear' date='Aug 18 2004, 01:06 PM'] Outside of Mass, yes, the roman collar (or habit for those in an order) is an identifying mark. During Mass, however, the alb, chausible, stole, etc. serve that purpose. The roman collar is not part of the required vestments for Mass.

Ecclesiastical dress is defined by the bishops (often as a conference, so in our case, the USCCB). [/quote]
I have a question about that... what is the rule/requirement for priests wearing clerics in public/at work? I work in the diocesan office and I think that I've seen ONE priest out of the 10-15 a day actually wearing black and a collar. i don't want to seem petty, but I'm just wondering. i like clerics

and, best of luck and many prayers to you on this mission. i wish i had your courage!

[p0lar_bear]

Kateri05,

What I said in my first post is pretty much all there is. (NB, the Directory which I quoted was quoting the Code of Canon Law, canon 284). The USCCB has not defined the norms, so it is up to each diocese.

[phatcatholic]

[quote name='p0lar_bear' date='Aug 19 2004, 10:13 AM'] OK, the fact that you used truecatholic.org as a reference... [/quote]
hehe, even heretics contain [i]some [/i]truth

[phatcatholic]

here are the articles i have compiled on the liturgy (admittedly, it is not as comprehensive as it could be):

[b]Liturgy of the Mass[/b]
--[url="http://www.catholicliturgy.com/"]The Catholic Liturgical Library[/url]
--[url="http://www.knight.org/advent/cathen/09790b.htm"]Liturgy of the Mass[/url]
--[url="http://www.catholic.net/Catholic Church/Periodicals/Faith/2000-7-8/kwasniewski.html"]What is Liturgy Supposed to Be and Do?[/url]
--[url="http://www.knight.org/advent/cathen/10001a.htm"]Music of the Mass[/url]
--[url="http://www.knight.org/advent/cathen/15710a.htm"]Christian Worship[/url]
--[url="http://www.kofc.org/rc/en/publications/cis/publications/hart/Hart_CIS111.pdf"]Introduction to Catholic Liturgy[/url]
--[url="http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ97.HTM"]On "[b]Vain Repetition[/b]," the Mass, and Liturgy[/url]
--[url="http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ196.HTM"]How Do Catholics Hear the Gospel?[/url]
--[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/SCRIPTUR/MASSPRT.TXT"]Our Participation in the Mass[/url]
--[url="http://www.christusrex.org/www1/mcitl/lowhome.html"]Meeting Christ in the Liturgy[/url]
--[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/LITURGY/MASS.TXT"]Mass of the Western Rites[/url]
--[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/LITURGY/SPRLIT.TXT"]The Spirit of the Liturgy[/url]
--[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/LITURGY/SACRSIGN.TXT"]Sacred Signs[/url]
--[url="http://catholiceducation.org/articles/religion/re0297.html"]Listening at the Liturgy[/url]
--[url="http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=4179"]A Theological Meditation On The Liturgy Of The Eucharist[/url]
--[url="http://www.carl-olson.com/articles/prayermass_cathparent.html"]The Mass: Uniquely Catholic, Totally Prayer[/url]

[Fides_et_Ratio]

Ok. Thank you all again for your help! This is what's happened the past few days:

To the best of my knowledge, my diocese does not require the priest to wear the collar while celebrating the Mass. So I guess I can't complain there, even if I don't like it.


Today, I attended daily Mass with a copy of the Mass (and ALL the Eucharistic Prayers). His ad-libbing for the rest of the Mass has greatly decreased (thankfully), and hopefully that's a permanent thing. He is using one of the Eucharistic Prayers for Masses with Children... the second one. But, it's a highly modified version of it--i.e., all the parts for children to join in in the prayer are removed, as well as some other parts. He also ad-libs a bit in the other parts of the prayer, but I am wholly confident that he is at least basing his Eucharistic Prayer on this one. Which makes me feel somewhat relieved that at least he's not making it up.

So I am going to finish up my letter, and hopefully get some feedback (to make sure it's charitable!) so I'll post here when I've finished it.

[Fides_et_Ratio]

After some thinking, my original plan of the letter seemed to be somewhat "too much" so I have cut back on a lot of my intentions. I don't want it to seem as though I'm placing myself on top of him, i.e., "I'm smarter than you".

Here is the letter thus far:



**** ******* ******* *****
********, Ohio *****
August 20, 2004



Father ****** *******
Associate Pastor, Saint ******* Church
*** ****** ****
********, Ohio *****

Dear Father *******:

As a younger member of Saint *******’s Parish very much attracted to the Liturgy of the Church, I am curious, yet also concerned about a few liturgical practices I have noticed when attending your celebration of the Mass. The liturgical issues about which I am questioning do not appear to follow the norms set forth by the Church. Norms, which, to my understanding make a large difference in the celebration of the Sacred Liturgy; as the Holy Father puts it, “These norms are a concrete expression of the authentically ecclesial nature of the Eucharist; this is their deepest meaning” (Ecclesia de Eucharistia, 52).

Please do not take this as any sort of personal attack. That is not my intention at all in writing this. If you find that my assertions are incorrect or out of line, I hope that you will not refrain from correcting my understanding.

To begin, I noticed that you have been using the second Eucharistic Prayer for Masses with Children in your celebration of the Masses that I’ve attended. It is my understanding that according to the United States Catholic Conference of Bishops (USCCB) this is improper, as during daily Mass there are not many children (if any) under a preadolescent age. It is also my understanding that the Eucharistic Prayers for Masses with Children were written for just that—Masses with children in high attendance (i.e., a school Mass), and that the prayers are written in a language easier for smaller children to understand. As a nineteen year old, I take slight offense to this.

I am also somewhat concerned by a few modifications to the wording of the Liturgy. I've noticed on several occasions that you did not follow the words provided in the Sacramentary, and especially in your use of the Eucharistic Prayer(s). I have understood the wording of the Liturgy to be of great importance as the prayer of the Church to God, and in my own life in relating to the Church as well. Most recently, Cardinal Arinze has said, “The liturgical words and rites, moreover, are a faithful expression, matured over the centuries, of the understanding of Christ, and they teach us to think as he himself does; by conforming our minds to these words, we raise our hearts to the Lord” (Redemptionis Sacramentum, 5). I cannot help but be concerned by alterations in the words of the Sacred Liturgy.

Though I will be leaving for college soon (and spending this next semester out of the country), I am still very much attached to my "home parish" and so only wish the greatest blessings and orthodoxy for Saint *******'s. I would greatly appreciate any feedback you might be willing to offer. In light of my upcoming departure (Sunday the 29th), you may feel free to reach me by e-mail: (e-mail address... not posting on internet because I don't want spam!)

Thank you for your time and consideration,



Jillian ******

[p0lar_bear]

Over all, not bad. You might want to take out the part about being offended by his using the Eucharistic Prayer for Masses with Children....this is about the Church, not your feelings or reactions, putting in that you are offended changes the focus.

Also, in your first paragraph, the 'sentence' that begins "Norms, which...." is a fragment. Make the first clause a complete sentence and put the Holy Father's statement as a new sentence.