The Difference Between Republicans And Democrats

[Azriel]

Unions were necessary in this country. They are not in their current form, effective...however, God Bless my husbands union for keeping him employed (he works in city government)

Not every union is a drain on the economy. There are still plenty of folks in unions who are not making big bucks for pushing brooms. Unfortunatley, the big unions (like the UAW) make all the rest look bad. Now - for everyone who has never seen what a community looks like when their Major employer pulls out - please come and visit Flint. GM has been pulling out and sending jobs overseas for many, many years. The community has been devestated, and it all began under a Republican president. It also never got any better under a Democratic President. - So who's helping us?

I work in the business world as well - I work for a very large company who just sent all of our first level IT support to India - while cutting another 2-3k employees.

This has been going on for more than 5 years. I don't know who is to blame ... we sure haven't seen any influx of jobs while the rest have went overseas.

(we are not Union - and are actually currently being investigated by the SEC - go figure)

I also felt the tremendous impact of my father losing his union job (at a grocery store, not making 80k I assure you) under a Republican president, and not being able to find a comparable job until roughly 10 years later. And, not for lack of trying. Times were tough when I was a kid, and my dad was too proud for state aid. So excuse me if I don't dance and sing and get all jazzed about Republican economic policy.

It sure didn't help put food on the table when I was a kid.

[Azriel]

***on second thought***

Please don't respond to my ranting. I'm tired. Danielle is cranky, and I really don't feel like arguing. I'm just giving my experience. Which is, admittedly, largely subjective - just as everyone else's is.

My political motto from now on is "Pro-Life in '04"

Which is what we all agree on anyway.

[ironmonk]

Please don't get me wrong... Some unions are actually good - though I have failed to find any - if I had to guess, it would be the firemen and police unions unless they support kerry... any union that supports kerry is worthless and go against Church teaching..

But I've seen far to many unions that will not let people who need to be fired, get fired. Unions that force an employer to pay $80,000 a year to someone pushing a broom are pure and simple a waste. Instead of paying 1 man $80k... they could pay 3 men $25k.... It's a buddy system, it doesn't matter what you know, or how smart you are, many will beat you for wanting to support your family over some stupid strike.... Those unions are worthless and go against Church teaching.

And for those who want to argue the point... meditate on this....


[b]St. Matt 20:1[/b]
"[color=red]The kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out at dawn to hire laborers for his vineyard. [/color]
[b]2 [/b][color=red]After agreeing with them for the usual daily wage, he sent them into his vineyard.[/color]
[b]3 [/b][color=red]Going out about nine o'clock, he saw others standing idle in the marketplace,[/color]
[b]4 [/b] [color=red]and he said to them, 'You too go into my vineyard, and I will give you what is just.'[/color]
[b]5 [/b][color=red]So they went off. (And) he went out again around noon, and around three o'clock, and did likewise.[/color]
[b]6 [/b][color=red]Going out about five o'clock, he found others standing around, and said to them, 'Why do you stand here idle all day?'[/color]
[b]7 [/b][color=red]They answered, 'Because no one has hired us.' He said to them, 'You too go into my vineyard.'[/color]
[b]8 [/b] [color=red]When it was evening the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, 'Summon the laborers and give them their pay, beginning with the last and ending with the first.'[/color]
[b]9 [/b][color=red]When those who had started about five o'clock came, each received the usual daily wage.[/color]
[b]10 [/b][color=red]So when the first came, they thought that they would receive more, but each of them also got the usual wage.[/color]
[b]11 [/b][color=red]And on receiving it they grumbled against the landowner,[/color]
[b]12 [/b][color=red]saying, 'These last ones worked only one hour, and you have made them equal to us, who bore the day's burden and the heat.'[/color]
[b]13 [/b][color=red]He said to one of them in reply, 'My friend, I am not cheating you. Did you not agree with me for the usual daily wage?[/color]
[b]14 [/b] [color=red]Take what is yours and go. What if I wish to give this last one the same as you? [/color]
[b]15 [/b][color=red](Or) am I not free to do as I wish with my own money? Are you envious because I am generous?' [/color]



Unions forcing an employer to pay people more when the employer is just and believes the person does not deserve it, pure and simply wrong.

Not to mention the unions were started by organized crime and it seems many have the greed mentality of the mob.


When I lived in Evansville IN, the Zenith factory was there... it employed many people... but because of union garbage, they couldn't afford to keep the business running, so they moved their operation to Mexico. Paying someone $80k for pushing a broom not only does injustice to the company, but also all the other employees and the unemployeed.. and the guy pushing the broom... if the guy pushing the broom looses his job, it's doubtful that he'll be able to make anything near $80k.


God Bless,
ironmonk

[Iacobus]

[quote name='Azriel' date='Aug 18 2004, 06:33 PM'] Unions were necessary in this country. They are not in their current form, effective...however, God Bless my husbands union for keeping him employed (he works in city government)




[/quote]
Ummm.... I know you asked not to respond to your post but I just wanted to pipe in... Catholic Social teaching demends the right of workers to be able to unionize and strike.

[Good Friday]

[quote name='ironmonk']And if anyone here wants to argue the facts presented above: go do some US history study, starting in 1760 through 1800. The democrats in power today have to lie about the republican plans to win... that is why they're always saying that people are going to loose jobs, take money out of the poors mouths, etc....[/quote]
The immediate disclaimer, lest I be burned at the stake: Catholics cannot morally vote for Sen. John Kerry or any pro-abortion politician.

That said, Ironmonk, some of us actually live in this country and struggle to pay our bills, and we are not so ready to canonize the Republican Party and all of its members. Of course you are ready to, since you have been Republican since before you even came back to the Church, by your own admission. It's also probably quite a bit easier to like the Republicans since you do not have a minimum wage job with no health benefits and such.

However, for those who are losing their pensions, who have less of a chance now than ever to get medicine under Medicare, who are losing their jobs because they're being outsourced to India, who are having to train their foreign replacements before they're let go, who are having to take minimum wage jobs that can't feed their families because their higher paying jobs have been outsourced, who are losing sons and daughters in a war based on a lie, who have lost family members under the reinstated federal death penalty, who have been unable to go to college because of climbing tuition and an unsatisfactory minimum wage, I could go on and on, and on, but I'm not going to -- for those of us who live in the real world, and the real America, the Republicans are total morons who are only better than the Democrats because they don't kill unborn babies, and we sacrifice our own happiness and security for those unborn babies, [b]but not for the Republicans[/b]. Not for the Republicans, who steal from the poor while offering incentives to the rich who outsource their jobs; not for the Republicans, who want to eliminate overtime pay and abolish the minimum wage so that our children can starve to death; not for the Republicans, who oppose Catholic teaching by opposing unions; not for the Republicans, who armed Osama bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, and who continue to arm terrorists in Latin America. [b]Not for the Republicans[/b] -- for the unborn children. Anyone who is voting for the Republicans because they actually [b]like their policies[/b] needs to seriously look at the Church's teaching and decide whether or not they're more Republican than Catholic, and if they're comfortable with being so supportive of those who oppress and murder the poor.

By all means, vote for George W. Bush as the lesser of two evils, but don't pretend he's some great moral good. What's deplorable is that we have these two despicable, spineless, evil men as our only choices for President in this country. God save America from our politicians, of both parties.

[Good Friday]

And before someone starts spouting off about the so-called "Clinton Recession," let me reply in advance: don't give me that bullpuckey. George Bush did not inherit a recession from Clinton, and that is a blatant lie. For all of Clinton's many, many flaws, he balanced the budget, created jobs and brought us out of the Bush Sr. Recession, which was just a continuation of the Reagan Recession. For eight years under the Clinton Administration we enjoyed economic stability and job growth, and for four years under the Bush Administration we have experienced the economy spiralling out of control and the loss of so many jobs -- not to mention the higher prices on groceries and gas.

The only people who believe the "Clinton Recession" lie are Republicans who already wanted to believe it; no one who actually lived through it believes it, so save it.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

Okay, if Clinton wasn't responsible for the recession, even though the majority of economists agree on that (and you can see it easily on a simple chart), let's look at what happened. The recession occurs...for the sake of argument, let's blame it on Bush. What does Bush do? He gives tax cuts and helps bring the economy back up...all with the same economic policy...hmmm...

How does one economic policy cause and cure a recession?

Rather, we all know that trickle-down economics takes a little while to work. Reagan spurred economic growth which was seen most in his second term. Then conflicts in the Gulf caused a recession under Bush, for which he adjusted the economy. The economy got better. Then under Clinton, the economy continued to grow until the internet bubble, which caused a false high in the stock market, burst near the end of his term. Then Bush inherits the recession and brings back Reaganomics to bring the economy to what it is today, slightly lower (remember that the internet bubble caused falsely inflated stock prices), but much more stable than under Clinton.

[Azriel]

If this gets nasty - its getting moved.

[p0lar_bear]

[quote name='Azriel' date='Aug 19 2004, 12:56 PM'] If this gets nasty - its getting moved. [/quote]
Is there really any doubt that it will?

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Azriel' date='Aug 19 2004, 11:56 AM'] If this gets nasty - its getting moved. [/quote]
I won't get nasty. I'm done on this thread...I just had to put in my two cents.

[ironmonk]

[quote]It's also probably quite a bit easier to like the Republicans since you do not have a minimum wage job with no health benefits and such.[/quote]

No, that's not the case. When I had a minimum wage job and no health benefits and such, I still like republicans because they were closest to Church teachings. When I was out of the Church I was still Catholic, just a very ignorant one of having to go to Church. I've know the Church teachings from scripture very well.

People's jobs getting outsourced is not the republican's fault... they get outsourced due to high taxes on companies, unions, etc...

The war IS NOT based on a lie.

The federal death penalty has ONLY put to death about 900 people since 1976. 45 Million + babies have been killed since 1973.

You could go on and on about a fantasy yes... You listen to the media and the democrats to much, and are simply wrong. You list of republican things too are a far stretch from the truth of the matter.

The DO NOT oppress and murder the poor... I bet you believed moore's movie too.

Lack of study nate.... lack of study... proof of listening to one side and not getting the facts.

Bush is not evil. Bush is not a great moral good... Bush DOES have integrity and is trying, and doing a great job at it.



-ironmonk

[Azriel]

Amen pOlar.

Anyway....this should probably go in another thread...but I'm curious as to what people think of this:

[url="http://www.epinet.org/stmt/2003/statement_signed.pdf"]http://www.epinet.org/stmt/2003/statement_signed.pdf[/url]

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Azriel' date='Aug 19 2004, 11:59 AM'] Amen pOlar.

Anyway....this should probably go in another thread...but I'm curious as to what people think of this:

[url="http://www.epinet.org/stmt/2003/statement_signed.pdf"]http://www.epinet.org/stmt/2003/statement_signed.pdf[/url] [/quote]
I think it's carp...all of these signatures come from staff at America's most unabashedly liberal schools.

Sorry. [b]Now[/b] I'm done with this thread.

Edited August 19, 2004 by Raphael

[Azriel]

So because they are at liberal schools make them unintelligent economists? C'mon - this is a non partisan site. Everyone keeps saying to look at both sides and to think...that goes both ways doncha think?

[Azriel]

so what you're saying is that none of these people have any credibility:

[url="http://www.epinet.org/stmt/2003/econlist_final_db.html"]http://www.epinet.org/stmt/2003/econlist_final_db.html[/url]