Iacobus Posted August 20, 2004 Share Posted August 20, 2004 [quote name='dUSt' date='Aug 19 2004, 05:54 PM'] Peroutka is definitely the best candidate, [b]but[/b] we should also use common sense and reason when deciding who to vote for. If we are [b]truly[/b] concerned with saving the lives of pre-born babies, then we should vote for a pro-life candidate who has a chance of winning. Unfortunately, if we don't do this, we are unintentionally helping the pro-death candidate win the election. [/quote] I agree with you kinda but see this as a Catch-22 of sorts. Catholic teaching doesn't fully fall into any one party, as you yourself said dUSt and may great thinkers have (Alexis de Tocqueville), but that doesn't prelude us from trying to make a party rep the Church. We can yell and scream and make speechs every nanosecond but until they start to lose power in the goverment the parties won't change. The status quo is easier to make than a new party platform. So to make either the Dems or the Reps come to mirror the church on both social and life issues we need to hold back our votes. We can't vote for pro aborts unless only pro aborts are running and if that happens we have bigger problems. But there are plenty of good Catholic's running on the third party tickets. We should support them with lip service, money, and votes. The big two parties will have to see that this third party is offering something that a signicfticant number of voters want that they are not offering and they, in theory, would try to twist the platform to incorperte this ideas. The Catch-22 part is that in refusing for vote for the less than best person running in order to change the platforms may put the wrong guy in office. A Dem (many I know) who supported Nader can attest to that. But its goal is progress. So yeh. I am not sure what to make of it yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Blaze Posted August 21, 2004 Share Posted August 21, 2004 [quote]President George W Bush- Signed the Partial Birth Abortion Act into law on Nov 5 2003 and said "for years, a terrible form of violence has been directed against children who are inches from birth, while the law looked the other way." [/quote] Looks good on paper, but what does a Partial Birth Abortion Ban really do? Of course it bans partial birth abortions, however it did not include a ban on other forms of late term abortion, so it how many lives will the ban save...... looking back at the stats from Ronald Reagan, George Bush Sr., and Bill Clinton.... Do you know which president had the fewest abortions annualy during their administration? It shocked me to find it was bubba..... tina, I'm not trying to dog on your opinions, I respect them and yourself and thanks for your info, but I have yet to see a quote where Pres. Bush states something to the effect, "I will do everyting in my power to end abortion." Bush is one man, but with the power to appoint "conservative" judges to the supreme court and with a good chance of a GOP controlled Congress, I expect some more progress to be made if he gets elected... History shows me that 5 of the 7 judges that made abortion legal in Roe v. Wade were appointed by "conservative" Republicans.... heck even one of the justices that voted against the Roe v. Wade, was appointed by a Democrat...... No doubt Bush is the better Pro-Life candidate.... but I'm just expressing my American right to constructively criticize our leaders..... Godbless ya homey ~S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmjtina Posted August 21, 2004 Share Posted August 21, 2004 [quote name='Sammy Blaze' date='Aug 20 2004, 11:42 PM'] but I have yet to see a quote where Pres. Bush states something to the effect, "I will do everyting in my power to end abortion." Bush is one man, but with the power to appoint "conservative" judges to the supreme court and with a good chance of a GOP controlled Congress, I expect some more progress to be made if he gets elected... No doubt Bush is the better Pro-Life candidate.... but I'm just expressing my American right to constructively criticize our leaders..... Godbless ya homey ~S. [/quote] I respect yours, but your statement really irked me. So he hasn't said he doesn't support abortion 100%. I don't expect him too. The man is terribly flawed, but to state it looks good on paper...... I just have to question how you handle statements that are incredibly small but HUGE steps in the pro-life department. Less abortions? I've heard and read that too, statistic wise, but what did clinton do? Voted for Partial Birth Abortion and kept it. Out right killing someone on "paper" and on the table in an abortion clinic makes bubba better b/c of stats? [quote]History shows me that 5 of the 7 judges that made abortion legal in Roe v. Wade were appointed by "conservative" Republicans.... heck even one of the justices that voted against the Roe v. Wade, was appointed by a Democrat......[/quote] Show me the history. When it comes to life and ppl point out "history" show me where you found it. When it comes to life, you better have more than, 5 out of 7. What are the names so we can research and come to a better understanding of this obvious misunderstanding. I'm not dogging your "expressing your American right" but when it comes to Life, lives hang in the balance with words that are expressed. When it comes to "history", a persons vote can be swayed by inaccurate or biased information. God Bless. +JMJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader_4 Posted August 21, 2004 Share Posted August 21, 2004 AS long as Kerry doesnt win and the PRO LIFE Republicans/Democrats take ground i will be happy this one election though is going to influence a lot in the future and a lot of lives are riding on each American's vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Wednesday Posted August 21, 2004 Share Posted August 21, 2004 I selected "moderate." I do not affiliate myself with any political party. When I was younger, I was more supportive and held views more in line with the Democratic Party, and I've admired some of Europe's economic and environmental policies in particular. But in recent years I've come to understand more of where the right wing is coming from -- they view the idea of letting big government do things as beaurocratic and inefficient. So my stance on issues varies. You could say I am politically "confused." BUT! [b]Because morals have to come first, no pro-choice, pro-gay marriage candidate will get my vote if I can help it. Which means I vote mostly Republican now.[/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader_4 Posted August 21, 2004 Share Posted August 21, 2004 Ash Wednesday i completely agree with yoru stance i feel exactly the same way you do...Rock on! hahah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Wednesday Posted August 21, 2004 Share Posted August 21, 2004 [quote name='Anna' date='Aug 16 2004, 07:53 AM'] If you're not registered, you can't vote. Your registration is checked at the voting booth. You're registered as [i]something[/i], to be sure, if you're allowed in the voting booth. [/quote] Oh my goodness... I don't even know what I'm registered as, then. I'm definitely a registered voter. Is that a requirement in all states? I don't remember giving myself any affiliation.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Blaze Posted August 21, 2004 Share Posted August 21, 2004 [b] From a post I made aug. 18[/b] ahhh what the hay.... Now these justices have voted and passed down numerous decisions but hey LIFE is the biggest issue, their stance on Roe V. Wade is all that really matters so here it is... 7-2 decision MAJORITY (Boooo!!!) Harry Blackmun Age: 90 retired Supreme Court justice whose conservative stance shifted to the left during his 24-year tenure. Appointed to the post in 1970 by Richard Nixon, he later became most famous for [b]authoring[/b] the controversial 1973 decision in Roe v. Wade, making first-trimester abortion legal in the U.S. Died: Arlington, Va., March 4, 1999 [url="http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0774905.html"]http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0774905.html[/url] William J. Brennan, Jr. William Joseph Brennan, Jr. Associate Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States Dates: Born: April 25, 1906 in Newark, New Jersey Died: July 24, 1997 in Arlington, Virginia Associate Justice of U.S. Supreme Court: 1956 - 1990 Biography: William J. Brennan Jr. was appointed by Republican president Dwight D. Eisenhower, and Eisenhower would later come to regard that as one of this worst mistakes ever. Very sad article on him here: This guy called himself Catholic...ggrrrr.. [url="http://atheism.about.com/library/glossary/...nnanwilliam.htm"]http://atheism.about.com/library/glossary/...nnanwilliam.htm[/url] Chief Justice Warren Burger Appointed by Nixon [url="http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/people/A0809481.html"]http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/people/A0809481.html[/url] William O. Douglas Appointed by FDR Thurgood Marshall Appointed by LBJ (cool to see an african-american, too bad he's pretty liberal eh) Lewis F. Powell Jr. Age: 90 retired Supreme Court Justice. Powell was appointed to the high court by Nixon in October 1971 and served for 15 years, from 1972 to 1987. Died: Aug. 25, 1998. [url="http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0764337.html"]http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0764337.html[/url] Potter Stewart Appointed by Dwight D. Eisenhower [url="http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/people/A0846721.html"]http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/people/A0846721.html[/url] PRO-LIFERS! Willliam Rehnquist Appointed by Nixon, made Chief Justice by Reagan Byron White Appointed by JFK (How bout that JFK lol) [url="http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/people/A0852073.html"]http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/people/A0852073.html[/url] Here's a rundown: [url="http://womenshistory.about.com/library/enc..._roe_v_wade.htm"]http://womenshistory.about.com/library/enc..._roe_v_wade.htm[/url] In this post I'm not saying that one party is better or what not... I'm posting facts. Holla back ~S. [b]Here's the place I got the abortion stats, well I asked someone and they gave me this link[/b] [url="http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abo...itedstates.html"]http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abo...itedstates.html[/url] Pax Christi ~S. P>S> I didn't mean to "irk" you, if I did I apologize P>P>S> JMJTina is very dope! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen Posted August 21, 2004 Share Posted August 21, 2004 [quote name='Ash Wednesday' date='Aug 21 2004, 12:09 AM'] Oh my goodness... I don't even know what I'm registered as, then. I'm definitely a registered voter. Is that a requirement in all states? I don't remember giving myself any affiliation.... [/quote] I don't think you have to state which party you're affiliated with when you register, at least not in my state. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iacobus Posted August 21, 2004 Share Posted August 21, 2004 [quote name='Sammy Blaze' date='Aug 20 2004, 11:42 PM'] Looks good on paper, but what does a Partial Birth Abortion Ban really do? Of course it bans partial birth abortions, however it did not include a ban on other forms of late term abortion, so it how many lives will the ban save...... [/quote] Your right. It does look good and it is a noble idea, but the fact that 2 federal judges have decleared it uncon for being vague and it is on stay around the nation it is just paper. So yes, it would be good if it worked, but right now it isn't and doesn't look at it is going to any time soon so it is just looking good. Until the stay is lifted and/or the judges reversed we won't have any progress or regress from this. And it looks like it is going to go up to the USSC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reelguy227 Posted August 21, 2004 Share Posted August 21, 2004 Conservative Republican here!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmjtina Posted August 21, 2004 Share Posted August 21, 2004 [quote name='Sammy Blaze' date='Aug 21 2004, 12:16 AM'] [b]Here's the place I got the abortion stats, well I asked someone and they gave me this link[/b] [/quote] the link isn't working... Thanks for the info.....I'm going to look more into this.....AND with LINKS!!!! I lOVE links. And Zach dissected the abortion stats and shot that out of the water....lemme e-mail him to look for it. He did such an awesome job! No need to apologize, I apologize if I came off uncharitable in any way! That's what's messed up about the internet, you can't see my face or hear my tone! God Bless Sammy. Tell your family hello from the sparkling city by the sea! +JMJ Tina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Knight Posted August 22, 2004 Author Share Posted August 22, 2004 Wow, talk about an active poll.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTHUS Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 (edited) I'm somewhere between a Lutheran and a Reformed Anglican, and I am a conservative independent. I voted for the Christian Heritage Party, (Anti-abortion, Theonomist (i.e. Pro-death penalty), with a strong social justice ethic), the only party which I could in good conscience vote for in my riding, since all the other parties were 'pro choice' Edited August 22, 2004 by ICTHUS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 Thanks Tina. How can you say that Clinton is the result for the lowest abortion totals if it was during Reagans term that they started going down? They are lower now than ever in the last 15 years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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