MichaelFilo Posted August 15, 2004 Share Posted August 15, 2004 Okay, I need this cleared up. I know that we must die in a satate of spiritual grace to be saved. I know we gain that spiritual grace from baptism. I know that much. I also know that we are saved by faith and work (in the sense that faith doesn't exist if works don't exist). SO, does spiritual grace lead to faith and works? Any clarification will get the biggest thank you I can offer, God bless, Mikey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StColette Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 We had a large debate on Grace last night in the Paltalk room and I'll just try and put it the way that we all agreed to well the stuff I can actually remember since the debate last 3 hrs lol Catholics believe that God gives us the grace to have faith and it is our choice to have faith or not. And with that faith, which is to follow the commandments etc., we are to do good works. I hope I remembered that correctly and explained it correctly lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelFilo Posted August 16, 2004 Author Share Posted August 16, 2004 Is that grace you mentioned spiritual or actual grace? Ty though for responding. God bless, Mikey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StColette Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 actual grace, from my understanding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelFilo Posted August 16, 2004 Author Share Posted August 16, 2004 So, as if it is actual grace, then what role does spiritual grace play, because my conclusion would be wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StColette Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 (edited) [quote]7. The Christian needs actual grace at the beginning of his conversion and during his sanctification. It is necessary during the rebirth process, when passing from the old nature to the new nature. It is a "Divine urge within the soul to do what is right according to the Will of God."[/quote] [quote]8. Sanctifying grace is a constant spiritual tendency that purifies the Christian. It allows him to enjoy a daily personal relationship with God. It results in displaying the fruit of the Holy Spirit through the love of God. Sanctifying grace is different by the fact that the Christian is "continuously disposed to live and act according to the calling of God." Once received, it remains as a necessary quality of the soul.[/quote] [url="http://www.catholicdoors.com/courses/grace.htm"]http://www.catholicdoors.com/courses/grace.htm[/url] I would really read the rest of that site its pretty awesome Edited August 16, 2004 by StColette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelFilo Posted August 16, 2004 Author Share Posted August 16, 2004 THank you for the link. I see the role of spiritual grace in our sanctification. However, as Catholics we believe we are saved by grace(spiritual), or so I thought. The site really just made me more confused, thank you though. God bless, Mikey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StColette Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 Simply put according to that website is that actual grace is the "push" that leads us towards our Faith in the beginning, sanctifying grace is the spiritual gift that God gives to us is that which we need for eternal life, this grace helps us to fulfill what God expects of us. Does that make it any clearer ? I'm gonna fell really bad if I'm telling you wrong lol But Bro Adam agreed with me that he believes that actual grace is what pushes you at first to chose to have faith in God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcceNovaFacioOmni Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 Try the Catechism first: [url="http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s1c3a2.htm#II"]http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s1c3a2.htm#II[/url] [quote][b]Actual Grace:[/b] God’s temporary enlightenment of our mind or strengthening of our will to perform supernatural actions that help us obtain, retain, or grow in sanctifying grace. For example, God may give us actual grace that strengthens our will to go to Daily Mass. If we do go, our attendance and reception of the Holy Eucharist strengthens our sanctifying grace. Actual grace with which we freely consent to cooperate is called efficacious grace, because it accomplishes God’s purpose in granting it. Actual grace to which we freely refuse consent is called sufficient grace, because it would have been sufficient to accomplish God’s purpose. Our decision to cooperate or not cooperate belongs to the will. [url="http://www.secondexodus.com/html/catholicdefinitions/actualgrace.htm"]http://www.secondexodus.com/html/catholicd...actualgrace.htm[/url][/quote] [quote][b]Sanctifying Grace:[/b] A supernatural state of being infused by God into our soul that gives us participation in the divine life. The participation in the divine life is the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit. Sanctifying grace belongs to the whole soul, including the intellect and will. It is greater than the virtue of charity because charity belongs only to the will. Sanctifying grace is a permanent part of our soul as long as we cooperate with its effects. When we have sanctifying grace in our soul we are said to be in the state of grace. If we pass into eternity while in the state of grace we will go either to purgatory or directly to heaven. When we commit a mortal sin, the offended Holy Spirit departs from us and we lose our sanctifying grace. If we pass into eternity while in the state of sin we will, objectively speaking, send ourselves to hell. Actual grace helps us grow in sanctifying grace. Sanctifying grace is sometimes called habitual grace or justifying grace. [url="http://www.secondexodus.com/html/catholicdefinitions/sanctifyinggrace.htm"]http://www.secondexodus.com/html/catholicd...ifyinggrace.htm[/url][/quote] New Advent: Actual Grace - [url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06689x.htm"]http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06689x.htm[/url] Sanctifying Grace - [url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06701a.htm"]http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06701a.htm[/url] And another good related article: [url="http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/a48.htm"]http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/a48.htm[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StColette Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 thanks dude that saved me a lot of time hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcceNovaFacioOmni Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 No problem, I get a kick out of this stuff. It pretty much reinforces what you said before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StColette Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 I'd never seen that " Holy Spirit's Indwelling" article before that's pretty awesome !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 [quote name='MichaelFilo' date='Aug 15 2004, 06:18 PM'] Okay, I need this cleared up. I know that we must die in a satate of spiritual grace to be saved. I know we gain that spiritual grace from baptism. I know that much. I also know that we are saved by faith and work (in the sense that faith doesn't exist if works don't exist). SO, does spiritual grace lead to faith and works? Any clarification will get the biggest thank you I can offer, God bless, Mikey [/quote] okay, there are two types of grace: actual and sanctifying. [b]actual grace [/b]is the push or motivation to do the will of God. it is the initial catalyst that prompts us to live our faith. this grace also strengthens our spirit and helps us to resist temptation. all seven sacraments institute actual grace. [b]sanctifying grace [/b]cleanses our spirit. through this grace we receive the forgiveness of sins, justification, and sanctification. this grace reunites us to the Lord whenever we sever our relationship w/ him via mortal sin. the sacraments of baptism, reconciliation, and anointing of the sick institute sanctifying grace. thus--to answer ur question--it is actual grace that "leads to faith and works." pax christi, phatcatholic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StColette Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 Okay good I actually had something right lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelFilo Posted August 16, 2004 Author Share Posted August 16, 2004 thank you! Thank you very much. One last thing, if I can get it clarafied. Faith is supernatural. So we'd need sanctifiying grace to be able to have faith correct? This is also true for good works, since they are supernatural ( in the sense that their intention is to glorify God ). Am I correct, or dead wrong? God bless, Thank you, Mikey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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