Is Homosexuality A Disorder?

[sonofppio]

The Catechism calls homosexuality "objectively disordered," and it says homosexual acts are "acts of grave depravity" [b](CCC 2357)[/b]. Some people--"gay" activists in particular, but many [b]"straight"[/b] sympathizers too--change this to say that the Church claims that homosexuals themselves are "intrinsically disordered," and then they reject this characterization.

[b]How can homosexuals be "intrinsically disordered" if "God made them that way"? Homosexuality "isn't their choice," and nothing should be done to encourage homosexuals to rid themselves of their homosexuality. Just leave them as they are. Don't tell them their actions are wrong. Don't try to modify their behavior. Especially, don't try to change their sexual orientation. Such is the argument.[/b]

But consider kleptomaniacs. Would one say that God "made kleptomaniacs that way," that "it isn't their choice," and that kleptomania "isn't a topic for behavior modification"?

Of course not. No one is born a kleptomaniac. For some reason a person becomes one, and, once he is one, he properly is said to suffer from a disorder. Merely being a kleptomaniac is no sin; there is no sin in being tempted to steal. But if one acts out his kleptomania, he commits at least a material sin and possibly a formal one.

While he may enjoy being a kleptomaniac (or at least has convinced himself that he enjoys it), he would be better off, objectively, if he were not one--that is, he would be better off if his behavior were modified and if he ceased to be a kleptomaniac. Likewise for homosexuality.

-Karl Keating

[curtins]

its not a sin to be a homosexual its a sin to commit homosexual acts


so just live chastly all my gay and streight freinds, and your time will come to be with God-

[picchick]

I heard that some homesexuals are that way by birth. However, I am not sure about that. I think that most of it is from the encouragement of the media saying that it is alright and so on.

[RandomProddy]

[quote name='sonofppio' date='Aug 15 2004, 02:07 AM'] How can homosexuals be "intrinsically disordered" if "God made them that way"? [/quote]
People born with severe mental disabilities are still children of God, just as homosexuals are God's children. The question is were they born that way...

[Aloysius]

when it comes to fighting homosexuality, 1/3 of people end up completely reversing and being able to have normal heterosexual attractions, 1/3 of people end up ridding themselves of homosexual attractions but never getting normal heterosexual attractions, and the other 1/3 continue to have homosexual attractions but decide to live chastely. if by "to be homosexual" you mean to have same-sex-attractions: yes that is not a sin so long as you do not act on them. homosexual PERSONS are called to chastity like everyone else. homosexual should only be used as an adjective modifying the noun PERSON, for they are people who just happen to have same-sex-attraction. you should never speak of them as homosexuals as if that disordered attraction somehow defines them.

anyway, yeah chastity is the main key, some people will continue to live with the temptation of same sex attraction, but so long as they live chastely and do not indulge in lustful thoughts or deeds, they commit no sin.

[Phazzan]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Aug 14 2004, 08:23 PM'] when it comes to fighting homosexuality, 1/3 of people end up completely reversing and being able to have normal heterosexual attractions, 1/3 of people end up ridding themselves of homosexual attractions but never getting normal heterosexual attractions, and the other 1/3 continue to have homosexual attractions but decide to live chastely. [/quote]
Really? What's your source? Perhaps you should've included 3/3 of those who try to convert sexuality end up with severe mental problems, but that would be an [i]exagerration[/i], wouldn't it?

Homosexuals have different brain structures to normal human beings. Whilst I reject the notion of 'born gay', it's apparent some people have same sex tendencies from birth, which become realised and acted upon later in life (usually adolescence), of which at that time one becomes a homosexual. Cultural factors and/or environmental influences may play a part in deciding whether one chooses to adopt homosexual behaviour. IMO, homosexuality is a disorder, but not one that can be readily cured. Just let them be.

[picchick]

right but I think that alot of homesexuality is caused by the culture today.

[Ash Wednesday]

I think what causes homosexual inclination can be genetics, but I think outside factors can contribute, too -- i.e. childhood abuse and molestation, a poor relationship with a parent, and nowdays people are encouraged to "experiment."

I'd say the ones that have reversed their sexual orientation (i.e. "ex-gays") are generally not the cases that are of genetic origin and have not "become straight" but have resolved their issues from their past.

[Norseman82]

I have to take issue with the view that if someone was born that way, that God is responsible for making him/her that way. Why is it God? Why not Satan interfering with God? Why is this not considered a consequence of the fall?

[Aloysius]

Phazzan, ppl that try to make that claim really depress me...

that is certainly not true. there are cases of psychological disorders of people who deny their same-sex sexual attractions and force themselves to heterosexuality, but when psychologists get in-depth to the root of the problem and help them overcome it (it is mostly a developemental disorder) many people go to lead psychologically healthy normal fruitful lives.

notice you asked me for a source but you yourself failed to provide them. most studies you'll find in the mainstream press today have flawed techniques used to study them, ask anyone who's really objectively looked at those studies-- they'll tell you.

anyway, The Catholic Medical Assosiation has alot of research on this subject

[url="http://www.cathmed.org/"]http://www.cathmed.org/[/url]

[url="http://www.cathmed.org/publications/homosexuality.html"]http://www.cathmed.org/publications/homosexuality.html[/url]

this is of particular interest: a man who was influential in getting homosexuality taken off of the psychological disorder list for the American Psychological Assosiation has changed his mind

[quote]Robert Spitzer, M.D., the renowned Columbia University psychiatric researcher, who was directly involved in the 1973 decision to remove homosexuality from the American Psychiatric Association's list of mental disorders, has recently become involved with research the possibility of change. Dr. Spitzer stated in an interview: "I am convinced that many people have made substantial changes toward becoming heterosexual...I think that's news... I came to this study skeptical. I now claim that these changes can be sustained." (NARTH 2000). [/quote]

It is most certainly not 3/3 of people who convert to heterosexuality experiencing psychological disorders, but thank you for trying to take away my hope for the future. the psychologists who deal with this disorder show this 1/3; 1/3; 1/3 statistics in common.

Not to mention all the common traits of developement of a person that run through everyone who has same-sex-attraction-disorder.

Because of the fact that I have not seen one case where these traits cannot be identified in some form, I believe whole-heartedly that it is NOT GENETIC. The facotrs that base whether or not you will be able to come out of homosexuality are how much you were involved in the lifestyle, how many same-sex partners you have had, how set in your ways you are, your age (the older u are, the more you tend to be more set in it and unable to change).

The studies that show a coorelation of genetics are flawed. The study that showed brain structure differences has NEVER been reproduced, it was distinct to one specific case.

[M.SIGGA]

A deacon explained this once. This is what the Bible says in 1 Corinthians 6:

[quote]9
Do you not know that [b]the unjust [/b]will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; [b]neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes nor sodomites[/b]
10
[b]nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers [/b]will inherit the kingdom of God.
11
[color=red]That is what some of you used to be; but now you have had yourselves washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.[/color]
[/quote]
and
[quote]
18
Avoid immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the immoral person sins against his own body.
19
[b]Do you not know that your body is a temple of the holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?[/b]
20
For you have been purchased at a price. Therefore, glorify God in your body[/quote]
The condemning verses of the Bible for homosexuality are tied directly to other mortal sins, specifically those which are sins of the flesh. It is plain and simple a temptation that some people are burdened with just like some people are tempted to fornicate, rape, masterbate, etc. Acting on the temptation becomes mortal sin just like all the rest. Some sins seem "nastier" than others, but all in all it's still the same damnable mortal sin as a guy who sleeps with a girlfriend or a dad who cheats on his wife who does not repent and confess.

The Bible clearly says that once a person is "justified in the name of the Lord" he is no longer in that state of sin. We are all made pure in God's image, and our mental state has to due with the environment and experiences we have in this sinful world. But this doesn't mean the devil will give up with temptation...

St. Paul writes that God's grace is sufficient in suffering, so that doesn't mean homosexual temptations will just miraculously go away all the time; from 2 Corinthians 12:

[quote]7
Therefore, that I might not become too elated, [b]a thorn in the flesh [/b]was given to me, [b]an angel of Satan[/b], to beat me, to keep me from being too elated.
8
[b]Three times I begged the Lord about this, that it might leave me,
9
5 but he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for power is made perfect in weakness." [/b]I will rather boast most gladly of my weaknesses, in order that the power of Christ may dwell with me.
10
[b]Therefore, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and constraints, for the sake of Christ; for when I am weak, then I am strong[/b].[/quote]

It's all about temptation, which is different for each individual, and for some people it happens to be very strong towards the opposite sex and others for the same sex. A lot of psychology is bogus; it's the devil.

[IXpenguin21]

please check out this awesome article from catholicexchange.com

it really nails down the issue.

[b][B]homosexuality is not a choice, but you are not born that way either[/b][/B]

[url="http://www.catholicexchange.com/vm/index.asp?art_id=24502"]SSA: What Won't Work and What Will[/url]

[hopeful1]

in a psych book i had for one of my classes, it seemed to conclude that it was something you were born with, not from abuse, dissatisfaction in heterosexual relationships, or absence of a father figure, hormonal imbalence, ect., but y prof said that taking homosexuality off the list seemed mostly political. however, in human dev, i bleive my professor said that it was a combination of factors, which is what i think. however, wether or not they can be changed, i dunno. i'm a bit skeptical and tend to agree with hyper on reparitive therapy. I think the ones that claimed to change where just confused in their sexuality, and not really gay (or possibly bisexual) to begin with. I've heard different things about that from different sources, and would like to hear more research from those who came back from more, nonbiases sources (for the sake of future references, i'm afraid if i did a paper on it for a class and used sources from a catholic psycholigist or facility, i'd be penalized for using a biased source, especially if it's already a few years old). either way, i know it's wrong, i just try to love them and pray for them.

[hopeful1]

btw, is "intrinsically disordered" meant in a spiritual sense, or biological/psychological? or both?

[cmotherofpirl]

Natural order dictates men are for women and women for men. A dis-order means the inclinations are headed in the wrong direction. Since we are a body/soul I would have to say it affects one spiritually and physically.