Clarification For The Proposal To Icthus

[Aloysius]

well, confession:> The Didache is a good place to start to find mention of confessing sins:
"Confess your sins in church, and do not go up to your prayer with an evil conscience. This is the way of life. . . . On the Lord’s Day gather together, break bread, and give thanks, after confessing your transgressions so that your sacrifice may be pure" (Didache 4:14, 14:1 [A.D. 70]). notice that they are to confess their sins when they gather to break bread on Sunday, this clearly shows that their confession would be heard by the "prophet" or "teacher" who is the priest who the didache mentions is the one who presides over the Eucharistic meal, because people were supposed to give to this person their leftover wine and food so that he could use it for the Eucharistic meal (they used to include meat at this meal, but it would be eaten prior to the consecration of the bread and wine, following what happened at the Last Supper) "13:3 Thou shalt, therefore, take the firstfruits of every produce of the wine-press and threshing-floor, of oxen and sheep, and shalt give it to the prophets, for they are your chief priests; "

anyway, the Didache really shows that customs the Catholic Church retains today were alive in the early Church as well in relation to the Eucharist
"14:2 But let not any one who hath a quarrel with his companion join with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be polluted, "


The Catechism of Pope Pius X
The Blessed Eucharist
"35 Q: What should one who knows that he is in mortal sin do before receiving Communion?
A: One who knows that he is in mortal sin must make a good confession before going to Holy Communion, for even an act of perfect contrition is not enough without confession to enable one who is in mortal sin to receive Holy Communion properly. "

this is the same thing taught in the Didache.. the Didache covers the same beliefs on both the Eucharist and Confession. [url="http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0714.htm"]Read the whole thing HERE[/url]

[Aloysius]

i'll discuss their acceptance of the Bishops as successors to the Apostles and Authoritative Teachers in the thread "Papacy" if you don't mind. the Papacy and the authority of all bishops go hand in hand

[Guest JeffCR07]

Also, I may be wrong, but I think Eastern Orthodox [i]do[/i] believe in the Assumption, I know they "pray to Mary" insofar as catholics pray to her. All of their sacraments are valid, and all of their clergy are validly ordained. There are very few things that they disagree with us about, one being the supremecy of the Roman Pontiff. However, even their two most important and highly esteemed Saints (SS. Athenasius and John Chrysostom) fought vehemently in support of the primacy of the Roman Pontiff.

[Aloysius]

oh, was your question whether the EASTERN ORTHODOX have confession and pray to mary? yes they do. that can't be disputed. they don't accept as a de fide DOGMA of the Faith that Mary was assumed into heaven, but just like the early Church it is a popular belief amoung them.

[ICTHUS]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Aug 9 2004, 12:41 AM'] My Challenge is to proove that any statement from an Early Council contradicts current Catholic Teaching. I was tryin to make it easier for you, you need only ONE quote from the past and ONE from the present that contradict. [/quote]
A Council, or a Father?

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='ICTHUS' date='Aug 13 2004, 05:25 PM'] [quote name='Aloysius' date='Aug 9 2004, 12:41 AM']My Challenge is to proove that any statement from an Early Council contradicts current Catholic Teaching. I was tryin to make it easier for you, you need only ONE quote from the past and ONE from the present that contradict.[/quote]
A Council, or a Father? [/quote]
I would think that Aloysius means an Ecumenical Council, i.e., a definition of an Ecumenical Council which is intended to bind the Church to a particular proposition as [i]de fide[/i]. The reason I say this, is that, clearly, the Fathers as individuals are not infallible. Even one of my favorite Fathers, St. Gregory of Nyssa, at one point taught a form of the Apokatastasis heresy.

God bless,
Todd

Edited August 14, 2004 by Apotheoun

[ICTHUS]

Would the Church affirm everything in St. Augustine's anti-Pelagian writings?

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='ICTHUS' date='Aug 15 2004, 03:38 PM'] Would the Church affirm everything in St. Augustine's anti-Pelagian writings? [/quote]
No, not necessarily, because as I indicated in my previous post, the Fathers as individuals are not the Magisterium, and so they are not individually infallible.

[ICTHUS]

So the Church can just say 'No, you're wrong' when one of the Fathers exegetes the Scripture in a way that is inconsistent with its perversions of the Holy Gospel?

[Aloysius]

you can't find a substantial group of ECFs that agree on a doctrine contrary to Church teaching though, it has never been done. indiscrepencies here and there in the ECFs that were clearly ironed out the BIBLICAL WAY (through a council guided by the Holy Spirit)

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

Perhaps this would be helpful:
[url="http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ198.HTM"]http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ198.HTM[/url]

And as a side note, where in the Bible does Jesus suggest ad hominem attacks as an effective means of evangelization? If this is the enlightened and reformed way a Christian is supposed to talk to his brothers, than I choose to remain a heretic.

[Circle_Master]

Hey Icthus, I was trying to send a message or something to you but it seems my PM's and email are both disabled on phatmass. I guess I was completely too hostile in my non-Catholic position or something .

Nevertheless, shoot me an email at vogelz@gmail.com if you would. I'd like to exchange a few emails, ask some questions etc.

Peace-

[ICTHUS]

[quote name='Circle_Master' date='Aug 18 2004, 08:49 AM'] Hey Icthus, I was trying to send a message or something to you but it seems my PM's and email are both disabled on phatmass.  I guess I was completely too hostile in my non-Catholic position or something .

Nevertheless, shoot me an email at vogelz@gmail.com if you would.  I'd like to exchange a few emails, ask some questions etc.

Peace- [/quote]
I think it's just that the Romanists want to keep the Truth supressed by their wickedness (Romans 1) by preventing non-Catholics from communicating.

Edited August 20, 2004 by ICTHUS

[Guest JeffCR07]

I can't believe you actually think that...you don't, do you?

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

ICTHUS,
You're going to get yourself suppressed (or ignored) here if you don't grow up. I feel like I'm reading a Chick tract. This is the true Christianity? The "reformed" Christianity? When did Jesus suggest the use of smack talk as a mode of evangelization?