St. Catherine Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 There was a truck with a Kerry for president bumper sticker in our church parking lot today....... What is even worse I think the person who drives that truck is related to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matty_boy Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 So MorphRC goes into the wonderful argument of "nobody can follow all the rules of the Catholic Church and be a Senator, so they might as well not follow any of the rules of the Catholic Church." That's the biggest load of [i]fill in the blank[/i] I've ever heard. We're all supposed to strive for perfection, and if we fall, we get back up. John Kerry spits in the face of the Catholic Church by putting his political life before his Catholic faith or lack thereof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin D Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 (edited) [quote name='Matty_boy' date='Aug 8 2004, 02:48 PM'] So MorphRC goes into the wonderful argument of "nobody can follow all the rules of the Catholic Church and be a Senator, so they might as well not follow any of the rules of the Catholic Church." That's the biggest load of [i]fill in the blank[/i] I've ever heard. We're all supposed to strive for perfection, and if we fall, we get back up. John Kerry spits in the face of the Catholic Church by putting his political life before his Catholic faith or lack thereof. [/quote] Indeed. If I wanted to use that excuse, I would be living a sexually sinful life right now. Edited August 8, 2004 by Paladin D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted August 8, 2004 Author Share Posted August 8, 2004 [quote name='St. Catherine' date='Aug 8 2004, 02:31 PM'] There was a truck with a Kerry for president bumper sticker in our church parking lot today....... What is even worse I think the person who drives that truck is related to me. [/quote] Sister, Speak up, speak out, let'em know for Christ. Print up some things that the bishops stated, and make sure to talk to them in a sincere tone. Maybe not start off directly talking about that, but depending on them, start with something to get them open to a dialog about Catholic teaching, then lead it into the following.... (or start with this, it'll be something that only you can know... and most of all, be sure to pray before talking to them) [url="http://www.usccb.org/faithfulcitizenship/bishopStatement.html"]http://www.usccb.org/faithfulcitizenship/b...pStatement.html[/url] God Bless, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gopherball33 Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 [quote name='amarkich' date='Aug 8 2004, 12:04 AM'] I). It is impossible for any faithful Catholic to take any vow of allegiance (including the Pledge of Allegiance) to the American government or the American people without committing a mortal sin of a false vow or the mortal sin of heresy by supporting a country which bases its authority "on the consent of the governed" (Social Contract) and not the Divine Right (properly understood, of course). Further, no faithful Catholic could defend (or vow to defend) the condemned errors that America supports, e.g., religious freedom, almost completely unabridged freedom of speech, almost completely unabridged freedom of press (all condemned by the [i]Syllabus of Errors[/i]). There are other issues with which Catholics cannot agree, especially with "defending the laws of the State" when they include abortion, contraception, divorce, legalized pornography, etc, etc. Even if the vow does not include a defense of the laws of the State, it is still impossible for a faithful Catholic to honestly take vows to protect and defend the fundamental beliefs of the American system which have been condemned by the Church (Social Contract, most if not all of the First Amendment, etc) because the Catholic would have to abandon the teachings of his faith or take a false vow. God bless. [/quote] So you are saying that every Catholic student will go to hell because he says the Pledge of Allegiance. I'm sorry, but I think that view is entirely incorrect. One can show support for one's country without committing mortal sin. In the Pledge of Allegiance, it says "One Nation, UNDER GOD." This recognizes that God is a greater power tan the USA. Also, a person reciting a patriotic poem or singing a patriotic song is merely showing pride in his or her country, and that he or she is proud to be in that country instead of another. Also, you say that no Catholic could defend freedoms such as freedom of speech, religious freedom, or freedom of the press. Well, if a Catholic does not support these freedoms, then that Catholic is denying free will. I know that at my Church the hymnals have songs such as "America the Beautiful" and "The Star-Spangled Banner" in the back. We even sang one as the closing hymn around the Fourth of July. Maybe my parish is wrong, but I doubt it, since it seems Orthodox on everything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Wednesday Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 [quote name='Matty_boy' date='Aug 8 2004, 01:48 PM'] That's the biggest load of [i]fill in the blank[/i] I've ever heard. We're all supposed to strive for perfection, and if we fall, we get back up. John Kerry spits in the face of the Catholic Church by putting his political life before his Catholic faith or lack thereof. [/quote] Matty boy. You simply rock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted August 9, 2004 Author Share Posted August 9, 2004 [quote name='gopherball33' date='Aug 9 2004, 02:18 AM'] So you are saying that every Catholic student will go to hell because he says the Pledge of Allegiance. I'm sorry, but I think that view is entirely incorrect. One can show support for one's country without committing mortal sin. In the Pledge of Allegiance, it says "One Nation, UNDER GOD." This recognizes that God is a greater power tan the USA. Also, a person reciting a patriotic poem or singing a patriotic song is merely showing pride in his or her country, and that he or she is proud to be in that country instead of another. Also, you say that no Catholic could defend freedoms such as freedom of speech, religious freedom, or freedom of the press. Well, if a Catholic does not support these freedoms, then that Catholic is denying free will. I know that at my Church the hymnals have songs such as "America the Beautiful" and "The Star-Spangled Banner" in the back. We even sang one as the closing hymn around the Fourth of July. Maybe my parish is wrong, but I doubt it, since it seems Orthodox on everything else. [/quote] I do think he has a good point... the "Under God" clause keeps it that we follow God, but the Under God thing was not put into the Pledge until sometime in the 1940's if I remember correctly... and it was the Knights of Columbus that got it in there. "Freedom of the press" is not something we have to support... the press should be liable for lies and the twists they do on the truth. They constantly go on which hunts to get ratings, they don't care about people. Freedom of religion should be supported based on being able to let the muslims be muslim and not heretics within the Church... as previous Popes have stated. Freedom of speech in so far as not going to jail for criticizing the government, but not for profanity or blasphemy God Bless, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorphRC Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 [quote name='AnomilE' date='Aug 7 2004, 12:50 AM'] Yes- they can and should until they are forced out- wouldn't that be nice to see? [/quote] Im talking about before. I dont see a catholic getting into office while upholding all the rules and laws. To much anti-catholicism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorphRC Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 [quote name='1337 k4th0l1x0r' date='Aug 7 2004, 01:40 AM'] I think they could, if they get elected. That's why I'm praying that Alan Keyes gets elected senator from Illinois. It's just that most people, including a whole lot of Catholics, wouldn't vote for someone who was 100% faithful to the Church on all the moral and doctrinal issues. [/quote] Im talking Pre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorphRC Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 [quote name='Matty_boy' date='Aug 9 2004, 05:18 AM'] Matts stuff [/quote] I never said such a thing. Geez Can you read? [quote]"nobody can follow all the rules of the Catholic Church and be a Senator, so they might as well not follow any of the rules of the Catholic Church."[/quote] Where did I say that?? Eh?? Now lets go thru every word, just so you dont add in your junk. [quote]Do you people honestly believe that a person in america can honesty follow the Church to every rule and law, and still be a senator or whatever you call them?[/quote] Do you people [b][members][/b] believe that a person [b][member of Gov, or a not-elected member][/b] in America [b][country & Government][/b] can honesty follow the Church [b][Catholic Church, you know the first and only true Church?][/b] to every [b][ALL][/b] rule(s) and law(s) [b][God's Commandments Handed to and Through the Church][/b], and still be a senator [b][Member of Government][/b] or whatever you call them? [b][Unsure of exact names US uses][/b] [b]Ok Show me where I said:[/b] [quote]nobody can follow all the rules of the Catholic Church and be a Senator, so they might as well not follow any of the rules of the Catholic Church.[/quote] Nobody can follow all the rules of the Catholic Church [b][True Church Forever][/b] and be a senator, so they [b][senators, as you imply][/b] might as well not follow [b][stay faithful][/b] any of the rules of the Catholic Church.[b][True Church Forever][/b] [color=blue][b]Where Did I Say That Exactly??[/b][/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorphRC Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 [quote name='Paladin D' date='Aug 9 2004, 05:32 AM'] Indeed. If I wanted to use that excuse, I would be living a sexually sinful life right now. [/quote] [b]Also Try This Entry[/b] [url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=17317&st=0entry303333"]http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showt...=0entry303333[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorphRC Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 [quote name='Ash Wednesday' date='Aug 9 2004, 06:07 PM'] Matty boy. You simply rock. [/quote] Yeah To Bad. It had nothing to do with my question. Like most of his answers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gopherball33 Posted August 10, 2004 Share Posted August 10, 2004 [quote name='ironmonk' date='Aug 9 2004, 09:47 AM'] Freedom of speech in so far as not going to jail for criticizing the government, but not for profanity or blasphemy [/quote] I know that profanity and blasphemy is not good, but wouldn't stifling them equate to stifling a person's free will? I mean, it is a person's choice to blaspheme or cuss. If he or she chooses to, that's not necessarily good, but they should be able to as they have free will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted August 10, 2004 Share Posted August 10, 2004 they do not have the moral right to do that, and thus would be rightfully punished for it. they should be convinced to have an interior conversion which makes them not want to do that anymore as opposed to simply outword factors forcing them not to say it. a just punishment against those actions would be correct, but if all you're doing is shutting them up and not converting their minds and hearts, it is pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gopherball33 Posted August 10, 2004 Share Posted August 10, 2004 makes sense. u cannot stifle free will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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