Who Will You Vote For And Why

[AnomilE]

Okay Phatmassers, where do you stand and why- defend your political stance with a substantiated defense.

[AnomilE]

I have voted undecided because currently I like Michael A. Peroutka, but I am not through making a clean sweep of all his stances to see if he checks out morally.

So far though, he APPEARS to be clean, but like I said, I'm still checking him out.

[jrndveritatis]

George W. Bush.

He is the only pro-life candidate who has a realistic shot of election. Abortion decides my vote because Catholics, to be Catholic, MUST oppose abortion. There is no room for debate here. Of course, Bush supports abortion in cases of rape and incest, which is incompatible with Church teaching. However, he is FAR more pro-life than John F. Kerry, and the Magisterium teaches that in these situations, even though a candidate like Bush is not totally in line with the Church, Catholics may (or perhaps should) vote for him over his opponent, who is further and completely opposed to the Church (even if this opponent claims to be Catholic).

[quote]A particular problem of conscience can arise in cases where a legislative vote would be decisive for the passage of a more restrictive law, aimed at limiting the number of authorized abortions, in place of a more permissive law already passed or ready to be voted on. Such cases are not infrequent. It is a fact that while in some parts of the world there continue to be campaigns to introduce laws favouring abortion, often supported by powerful international organizations, in other nations-particularly those which have already experienced the bitter fruits of such permissive legislation-there are growing signs of a rethinking in this matter. In a case like the one just mentioned, when it is not possible to overturn or completely abrogate a pro-abortion law, an elected official, whose absolute personal opposition to procured abortion was well known, could licitly support proposals aimed at limiting the harm done by such a law and at lessening its negative consequences at the level of general opinion and public morality. This does not in fact represent an illicit cooperation with an unjust law, but rather a legitimate and proper attempt to limit its evil aspects.[/quote]

In addition to abortion, Bush supports the sanctity of marriage and opposes federal funding of embryonic stem cell research.

After these non-negotiable issues come those on which orthodox Catholics can in theory disagree. Bush supports tax cuts, faith based initiatives, and most other conservative policies. These policies are yet another reason to vote for Bush, because of the common-sense nature of conservatism and its respect for free will and individual freedom, as well as the principle of subsidiarity.

[AnomilE]

[quote name='jrndveritatis' date='Aug 5 2004, 03:24 PM'] George W. Bush.

He is the only pro-life candidate who has a realistic shot of election.  Abortion decides my vote because Catholics, to be Catholic, MUST oppose abortion.  There is no room for debate here.  Of course, Bush supports abortion in cases of rape and incest, which is incompatible with Church teaching.  However, he is FAR more pro-life than John F. Kerry, and the Magisterium teaches that in these situations, even though a candidate like Bush is not totally in line with the Church, Catholics may (or perhaps should) vote for him over his opponent, who is further and completely opposed to the Church (even if this opponent claims to be Catholic).



In addition to abortion, Bush supports the sanctity of marriage and opposes federal funding of embryonic stem cell research. 

After these non-negotiable issues come those on which orthodox Catholics can in theory disagree.  Bush supports tax cuts, faith based initiatives, and most other conservative policies.  These policies are yet another reason to vote for Bush, because of the common-sense nature of conservatism and its respect for free will and individual freedom, as well as the principle of subsidiarity. [/quote]

You are completely entitled to your poll vote and I respect that- that being said....
You're misquoting the teaching. The teaching states that a completely pro-life candidate may support legislation that may not completely end abortion but is a measure in the process of ending it. I see nowhere that we can vote for a candidate who is not completely pro-life. Provide that if you can please.

Edited August 5, 2004 by AnomilE

[jrndveritatis]

[quote]You are completely entitled to your poll vote and I respect that- that being said....
You're misquoting the teaching. The teaching states that a completely pro-life candidate may support legislation that may not completely end abortion but is a measure in the process of ending it. I see nowhere that we can vote for a candidate who is not completely pro-life. Provide that if you can please. [/quote]

You have a point. The encyclical is explicitly referring to politicians. However, I believe that it is implied, or that it logically follows that what applies to politicians and legislation can be applied to voters and candidates. After all, moral laws are universal, so it seems that if this clarification applies here, it should apply for voters as well.

However, I do not have a direct quote saying that we can as voters vote for a candidate who is not completely pro-life. I think that simply follows as common sense. If anyone could help, I would appreciate it.

[popestpiusx]

I chose Poroutka, but I may write in Joe Sobran. Anom, Poroutka checks out morally. If he is not Catholic, he should be. It seems that he already believes everything the Church teaches in the realm of morals.

[cmotherofpirl]

President Bush

[CatholicAndFanatical]

but if we were to vote strictly 100% on a Catholic level, wouldnt voting for someone thats not Catholic be wrong??

I mean, if we want to pretend like we have a perfect candidate and all is good, then we must insist that this perfect candidate is Catholic, if he is not then he is not in Union with the Church and Christ and in reality is not that perfect so were back to square one.

And whos to say that even if this dude did become President he would be allowed to pass these laws he's talking about??

Remember, he has to get it past the Congress first and must have a majority vote. Unless there are, what 65(?) other people JUST LIKE HIM in the congress...its not going to happen.


Just bringing you back to reality. Sorry.

[popestpiusx]

[quote name='CatholicAndFanatical' date='Aug 5 2004, 06:46 PM']


Just bringing you back to reality. Sorry. [/quote]
Thanks. Saved me a trip to the voting booth. Why waste my time?

[ICTHUS]

[quote name='popestpiusx' date='Aug 5 2004, 04:14 PM'] I chose Poroutka, but I may write in Joe Sobran.  Anom, Poroutka checks out morally.  If he is not Catholic, he should be.  It seems that he already believes everything the Church teaches in the realm of morals. [/quote]
Peroutka is a Reformed Christian. To his credit, he also believes in the death penalty (as does the God he serves, as is evidenced by the Old Testament Civil Law)

Sola Gratia ~ Sola Fide ~ Solus Christus ~ Sola Scriptura ~ Soli Deo Gloria

Ryan

Edited August 6, 2004 by ICTHUS

[ironmonk]

It's a shame when people do not know how to use the brain that God gave them.


The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. When there is no chance for Poroutka to win, it's a wasted vote.

ALL Catholics have a responsibility to vote.

A Catholic Call to Political Responsibility
[url="http://www.usccb.org/faithfulcitizenship/bishopStatement.html"]http://www.usccb.org/faithfulcitizenship/b...pStatement.html[/url]


Those who vote for anyone other than Bush might have their hearts in the right place, but their head is up.... let's just say "not in the right place".

45,000,000 babies. Once the next 45,000,000 are safe, then we can talk the lesser things.

God Bless,
ironmonk

[M.SIGGA]

[quote name='popestpiusx' date='Aug 5 2004, 04:14 PM'] I chose Poroutka, but I may write in Joe Sobran. Anom, Poroutka checks out morally. If he is not Catholic, he should be. It seems that he already believes everything the Church teaches in the realm of morals. [/quote]
I think I seriously might be doing the same thing by voting for Sobran since this has evolved into a single issue vote for Catholics. i'm dropping the democrat party to become an independant.

I've always been a democrat, but their lack of public morality is getting worse and worse, plus throwing tons of money at social problems instead of searching out the problem is not fixing the situation. my parents will lose 40% of their income if he is elected i respect kerry for being a war hero and all, but I'm really sick of hearing about it as his only accomplishment in 40 years. john edwards spoke at the Louisiana Capitol this week, and all he talked about for 45 minutes was the friggin' Mekong Delta.

At least the republican party can candycoat their smut with fancy words and promises in a sort of dignified way that isn't openly slapping the Church in the face - I'm specifically talking about Ron Reagan at the DemNatlConvention indirectly telling pro-life Christians to be ashamed of themselves; Sen. Orrin Hatch shares this opinion but he respectfully knows how and when to keep his mouth shut and the same goes for Bush.

[qfnol31]

[url="http://www.lifenews.com/nat704.html"]What LifeNews has to say.[/url]

[quote name='M.SIGGA' date='Aug 5 2004, 10:52 PM'] ...this has evolved into a single issue vote for Catholics... [/quote]

I'm not so sure that it's all one issue, or that this really matters:

source: [url="http://www.catholic.com"]Catholic Answers[/url]

1. Abortion - We know how Kerry feels, Bush though?
[url="http://www.lifenews.com/nat698.html"]LifeNews[/url]
Day after pill? Bush can't do anything about it, and I've read that he would like to.
[url="http://www.lifenews.com/nat652.html"]More at LifeNews[/url]

2. Euthanasia - Well, his brother is really fighting in Florida for Terry Schiavo
[url="http://www.lifenews.com/bio399.html"]LifeNews[/url] The Bush family seems really close and to believe many of the same things.

3. Fetal Stem Cell Research - He cut off all funding for fetuses aborted after 2001. That's the limit of what he can do.
[url="http://www.lifenews.com/bio398.html"]LifeNews[/url]

4. Human Cloning - Bush is against it.

5. Homosexual "Marriage" - Not an issue since the President cannot do anything about it.

Well, Bush is against all, so it does really only have to be a one issue vote.

Edited August 6, 2004 by qfnol31

[Tora-Musume]

Never voted...have no say...moving on!

[M.SIGGA]

[quote name='qfnol31' date='Aug 5 2004, 11:42 PM'] Well, Bush is against all, so it does really only have to be a one issue vote. [/quote]
Wonderful. He is better than MekongDelta Kerry but he's not 100% prolife and against all abortions and stem cell research - and this is first and the most important above all other choices, platforms, opinions, politics, etc... absolutly no compromise, right?