Identifying The One True God

[Quietfire]

Wow, this was going well until the last four or five posts above.
Now you guys have me so confused. I think part of the problem is that someone isnt proof-reading what theyre typing. Not to be insultive, but it sounds like your saying one thing then contradicting yourselves and saying another.

Lets just leave Allah to another thread ok?

Tora, maybe I can help you. Since I am studying Catholicism myself and am Catholic by desire, I have had to start at kindergarden level.

We are all born with original sin.
Adam and Eve were not. Through free will they chose to disobey and thereby reject God's law (His Love). They are now fallen. They were perfect (in what I think you mean by perfection) but because they chose SELF over GOD they are now imperfect. By choosing self over God, this is sin.
Since Adam and Eve are our parents, all their children (us)are born with this same original sin.
When we are baptised we are cleansed from the original sin of our first parents, but remember, we are already different then them because we were born with sin and they were created without sin. Because of this we are more suseptable to sin. That is why we must fight against sin that much more.
You and I (and everyone) will never know what it is like to be like Adam and Eve, because they were created of perfection. We were born of imperfection.
Does that help at all????


Yes, we are given many chances through repentance and forgiveness, pentinence and such. But since man is now flawed, we tend to always choose self over God, and we find the most creative ways to justify it as well.
Since God gave us free will, (and keeping in mind my above info on what Adam and Eve did) we still tend to choose sin. Keeping in mind that this (sin) is the devils work. The devil rejected God and since he is spirit, his choice was final. He is the master of chaos. So he tempts, and all too often we bite.

Jesus was born and raised a Jew.
Jesus fulfilled all the prophesies of the coming of the Messiah. The Jews were hoping for a polictical leader, someone to lead them with strength and toughness. Jesus was not what they expected.
He did not come to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it.

Think on this. One of the Jewish laws was to hate your enemies. Seems to make sense, huh? If someone hates you, he is your enemy, so hate him back!
Jesus taught and teaches us to love our enemies, for what does it profit a man to love only those who love him?
Those who follow Christ, are Christians. Those who are lead by the infallible teachings of Christ are Catholics (which in Greek means "Universal"- so when someone says Catholic Church, they are actually saying Universal Church because Christ wants us all- hence, universal.)
Since Jesus fulfilled the Scriptures and we are called to be Christ-like and many Jews, and then Gentiles followed him they were called Christ-ians.
See the connections?
Catholics are Christians. The first Christians were the Apostles and deciples and followers. We are their continuation.
We are all family.

Since Christ is our head, and we are the body, the Church is often called the Mystical Body of Christ. We are the cells of the "body" of Christ.
We pray to God, we pray for each other. Often when a member dies we pray for his salvation, so that he may be joined with Christ in Heaven. We also ask our departed to pray for us here on Earth , so that we will have members in Heaven praying for us.


Anymore questions, please ask.

Peace.

Edited August 6, 2004 by Quietfire

[Quietfire]

Let me not forget Our Holy Mother Mary,

Because Mary was an exception to the rule of original sin.
Mary was born sinless. Mary remained sinless and always chose God's will above her own.
Mary accepted the gift of bearing the Son of God.

That is why we pray to Mary. Our Mother. Our Love, our sweetness, our hope.

Her role in our redemption was so important. Without her we would not be here where we are...Catholic.

There is a post about Mary here if you wish to read it. Just let me know. Someone will bump it for you.


Peace.

[carrdero]

MichaelFilo writes:Carderro I'd like to know, why you have this awkward capitalization, just wondering.

Actually it is probably a residue from all the conversations that I have documented with GOD. It was the way that GOD had wanted to express some words that were to have an influential connotation to whatever conversations we were “discussing”.

MichaelFilo writes: Now, I am not clear what you mean by connecting to God.

Anyway that contacts you to GOD.

MichaelFilo writes: I agree through prayer we are elvated up to God and we can talk to Him, if that is what you mean.

Well instead of talking “to” him why not try talking “with” him? Talking “to” him only implies a one way conversation. Talking “to” anyone is not a fair exchange of thoughts and feelings. I can’t think of any beneficial conversation that I have had where someone was dominating the conversation.

MichaelFilo writes: but our bodies are no form of conversation with God ( the fact that we are shaped like antennas deserves no refute, this is logically silly. We are flesh, He is spirit. )

Yes but the fact that our spirit and/or soul are contained within that physical body doesn’t mean that the connection is failed or flawed. If you desire a clearer illustration you may liken this to the way air (which is a very useful life force I might add) gets into our bodies to keep us alive.

MichaelFilo writes: Our physical form though, is not what shows the greatest qualities of God (Love, justice).

You are CORRECT in stating this. This is the area our society needs to work at. But one just has to look at and appreciate the design of the body to really utilize its full potential and many people are not fulfilling this purpose.

MichaelFilo writes: The fact you put so much value on a body scares me.

The fact is that my body won’t let me forget that it is attached to me. I could probably get around easier and have more energy if I didn’t have to haul this bag of bones around but in all fairness to your concerns I think you will be pleased to
K(NOW) that I take great measures to balance my mind, body and soul equally every opportunity I can get.

MichaelFilo writes: There is a limitation of what we can do in these bodies. It is when they are raised up and glorified and our spirits are put back in them, that then we can do great things.

Oh I don’t know about that-have you ever seen or heard Ray Charles or Stevie Wonder perform music? Now that is extraordinary!!

MichaelFilo writes: To suggest through private revelation and discussion with God, we can know all we need to know about God,

Well to be honest, when I started my discussions with GOD I have to admit most of the conversations were about ME. I wanted to K(NOW) about ME..Not Joe, Mary, Sue, Bob or Kelly. This is my life and it is unique and personal from anyone else’s. It is important for ME.

MichaelFilo writes: If God was just a personal God, and each man came up with a different God, then he would not be God at all, he would be a lie.

When I go to get my taxes done I go to a personal accountant. Why, because I am not bringing an income into my home that resembles anyone else’s and I need the personal attention that only this person can bring to me.
When I go to the store and I have personal problem I do not expect the clerk or cashier to handle me in the same way that the last customer was handled.
When I bring my car in to be repaired I do not expect the mechanics to perform the same operations to my car as they serviced on and the last vehicle.
This is not an “ego thing”. This is the way that I have been accustomed to being received. I know that through your comments you are only trying to understand my relationship with GOD but I cannot get over this feeling, this growing concern among other people about why they don’t feel they should be treated in the same manner.

MichaelFilo writes: Is your relationship with God not satasfying?

My relationship with GOD is the best thing that has happened to me in this lifetime and it evolves and flourishes everyday. Like I mentioned in another post my regret is that I didn’t realize this sooner. Not that I was unhappy before but as you come to K(NOW) GOD more, you understand more. I did not have this understanding before.

MichaelFilo writes: I am happy with what I have with God now, and strive to fulfill God's will.

I believe you are happy with GOD and I do believe that GOD is important in your life. Why? Because you told me it was and I believe you. But at the same moment I do not understand why some people do not or will not allow another persons relationship (as practical and healthy as it is) to be different from their own.

MichaelFilo writes: You said it is our responsibility to discover which methods work best for us, again, clarify connect please.

Connect. Like the way we are doing now. These methods work for us. Though if we both didn’t have a computer this would be difficult. We could use the phone, we could write a letter we could see each other on the street. Prayer, (I hear this is the most preferred method some Phatmass members use to reach me. GOD says my inbox is full.), meditation, a trip to a scenic location to appreciate GODs creation. Sit outside on a sunny day and watch the wildlife, this is a great way to connect to GOD (and very, very personal). It is not all about conversation with GOD. Some of the best moments GOD and I have spent together did not include any dialogue at all. What is important is that people learn to recognize GOD within their own lives, even if an open dialogue is not possible or preferable. This is what I meant by connecting.

[MichaelFilo]

I'd go on in the manner of point/rebuttal, but it doens't seem to work so well in that you totally remove my original point. So I'll state it simple, if you will respond to this cardderro, do so in a single attempt, not a butchering of what I'm saying if you will please.

The reason why I cannot accept your god as the true one is because god is not different to different people. He can be personal with other people, agreed. However, no one has EVER told me of how you worship god. The fact that you limit your god to only answering you in the manner you contact him also makes me wonder. My God answers my requests by giving me, and he requests of me by sending me the needy. He shows me when I am wrong by leading me towards the Truth. He doesn't sit there and have drawn out conversations where I can end up totally at odds with Him, and He is totally happy with it. Your god, however seems to be like that. Why would a singular True God, be so diverse in His personality types? This is very relevant to the protestants who thought God could tell them all something different, and they'd all be 100% right on the mark. The fact that we live in a Protestantized society leads me to believe that your god is just a product of this society.

Please respond to that in a single, non-butchered kind of way. Using the quote function however may make it easier on me to read, sorry for the inconvience, just trying to keep to point.

Mikey,

P.S. can you tell us more about your god? Like how the relationship started, and the likes, since that was the spirit that started the thread.

God bless

[Tora-Musume]

Bump to ALL those who have tried to answer my question.
Still lost . I have read the post and you have all explained that we are born with original sin until we are baptized, but my original question was: How can teachings be 2 different things from the same faith? Help me out here with this question please.

But from what my friends daughter was thought (who is learning to become a Catholic):
1. We are born without sin

2. We are born with sin until we are baptized.

My friends daughter was all confused with this teaching.


Gotta Love Me!

[carrdero]

To MichaelFilo

First I must again reiterate that I am not asking you to accept the realtionship that I have with my GOD. I am not asking for judgement. analysis, dissection, or intellectual reasoning. The GOD that I correspond with exists with or without us. To me (personally) that would make alot of sense.
I do not worship GOD. GOD has explained to me that he does not require worship. Worship is regarded for Beings connected with religion and as explained before, GOD is not our religions. Religions are man-made institutions. Man did not create GOD. GOD has been around long before man and established religion were created. So there has been no worship implied and none given, that may be an indication for me that this could indeed be GOD. Makes sense to me, though you are entitled to your opinions/beliefs/faith.
GOD is his own BEing with his own PURPOSE and his own agenda. GOD is not Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Born Again or Jehovah Witness. GOD does not exist to will or control us. GOD does not exist for us to will or control him or to use GOD to will and control others. This is not GOD's plan, this is not his desire, this is not his way. GOD is Supreme. GOD is wise. GOD is power. GOD is LOVE. To abuse or to take advantage of humans with these qualities goes directly against who GOD is.
GODs LOVE is unconditional, this means GOD LOVES you without any conditions. I can account for this because I have felt it through my relationship with GOD. Anyone who tells you GOD will LOVE you as long as you do this or do that is conditioning GOD's LOVE and does not K(NOW) who GOD is.
GOD does not change his personality when he talks with me. I can now spot GOD in a crowd that is how well I have gotten to K(NOW) GOD.
I cannot K(NOW) how GOD responds to other personalities because I have never met or talked with anyone who has the same kind of relationship as I have. Should I be held (or should I hold myself) in high regard because I have this kind of relationship with GOD. No. Do you have to have this same kind of relationship that I have with GOD. No. Does GOD have to have the same kind of relationship that I have with others? No. Can everyone have the same type of relationship that I have with GOD? From what I am to believe yes, if they so desire.
So if we are to follow this debate reasonably to its conclusion. Am I speaking to the ONE TRUE GOD that religions have spoken about (or are trying to identify)? No. I have identified the GOD that I am speaking to. GOD believes that we are all GODS (gods). The only claim that GOD makes to me is that he is the oldest existing entity and you K(NOW) what? That's okay with me.

P.S. MichaelFilo if you would like to know more about this GOD click on my website.

Edited August 7, 2004 by carrdero

[carrdero]

To Morph RC,
My apologies for not responding but if you want to read the same quote I sent to MichaelFilo Posted on Aug 6 2004, 08:40 PM I think this will help answer your quote/question.

Ive read alot of archaeological books and articles about Allah, and archaeologically it is impossible for Muslims to worship the same God. I mean put it this way. Im an egyptian pharaoh and out of all the egyptian gods i chose Anubis to be the one, supreme deity, and label him God, Creator, etc.

Does that mean I worship the same God?


An Answer From Anyone Would Be Cool. Please. Todah

[Aloysius]

who taught her we were born without sin? can this teaching be found or quoted in any Catholic source? we are born with original sin. when we are born we ourselves have not committed any sin, but everyone is born into the darkness with the stain of original sin upon their soul, and it is wiped away at baptism.

[Tora-Musume]

[quote name='Tora-Musume' date='Aug 6 2004, 08:26 PM'] Bump to ALL those who have tried to answer my question.
Still lost . I have read the post and you have all explained that we are born with original sin until we are baptized, but my original question was: How can teachings be 2 different things from the same faith? Help me out here with this question please.

But from what my friends daughter was thought (who is learning to become a Catholic):
1. We are born without sin

2. We are born with sin until we are baptized.

My friends daughter was all confused with this teaching.


Gotta Love Me! [/quote]
I forgot to add that this teaching was from the Catholic Faith.

Gotta Love Me!

[MichaelFilo]

Your friend misunderstood the teaching, from what I can tell.

Mankind was made without sin. Adam and Eve both sinned. Therefore, we are all born with original sin. So we are born with sin, until we are baptised. Adam and Eve were born without sin.

God bless,

Mikey

[MichaelFilo]

[quote name='MichaelFilo' date='Aug 6 2004, 06:47 PM'] I'd go on in the manner of point/rebuttal, but it doens't seem to work so well in that you totally remove my original point. So I'll state it simple, if you will respond to this cardderro, do so in a single attempt, not a butchering of what I'm saying if you will please.

The reason why I cannot accept your god as the true one is because god is not different to different people. He can be personal with other people, agreed. However, no one has EVER told me of how you worship god. The fact that you limit your god to only answering you in the manner you contact him also makes me wonder. My God answers my requests by giving me, and he requests of me by sending me the needy. He shows me when I am wrong by leading me towards the Truth. He doesn't sit there and have drawn out conversations where I can end up totally at odds with Him, and He is totally happy with it. Your god, however seems to be like that. Why would a singular True God, be so diverse in His personality types? This is very relevant to the protestants who thought God could tell them all something different, and they'd all be 100% right on the mark. The fact that we live in a Protestantized society leads me to believe that your god is just a product of this society.

Please respond to that in a single, non-butchered kind of way. Using the quote function however may make it easier on me to read, sorry for the inconvience, just trying to keep to point.

Mikey,

P.S. can you tell us more about your god? Like how the relationship started, and the likes, since that was the spirit that started the thread.

God bless [/quote]
That was my post. You repleyed to none of the points.

Did I read what you said? Yes.

Did I look at your sight? Yes. [url="http://www.jfaproductions.com/aboutBook.htm"]http://www.jfaproductions.com/aboutBook.htm[/url]

Have you in anyway made me believe your god is God? No.

You have turned God into some commercalized, New Age love hippy. You aren't the first.

Here is someone who reduced God to absolute nothingness but a math equation.

[URL=http://www.alexchiu.com/]http://www.alexchiu.com/[/URL|

I could go on and on about people who reduce God to be nothing more than environmental factor. I will ask you to look out of the pit you are in, but you believe that religion is a pit. The best I can say now, is may God help you, to reach Him. I believe I will deny that as long as you live, and talk to this falsified god, I will not acknowledge he is not the real God. The God I love and worship sent prophets, and many times took matters into his own hands to lead His people. My God loved us, he stood by us. He sent himself, so that we all may come to believe. Your god was created in your mind, or is a demon out to trick you. If God is what you say he is, then he has the mindset of today, since the beggining of time. If I am a god, then why am I imperfect?

God bless,

Mikey

[Guest JeffCR07]

[quote]Identifying The One True God, How do we know?[/quote]

I am unsure as to whether this is a personal question, or an objective one.

If it is a personal one (as in, "what is my personal journey that has lead me to understand the One True god in His Fullnes) then you already know my answer, as I posted it in our previous discussion.

If it is an objective one (as in, "how can one understand with a normative amount of objective certainty that he or she has really come to know the One True God") then the answer is as follows:

Such a thing can only be done with one foot firmly planted in Revelation and the other firmly planted in Reason. Metaphorically speaking, it is only when the School of Israel and the School of Greece are brought together that one can come to know the truth. If one blindly accepts Reason to the exclusion of Revelation, then they cannot achieve the Fullness of the Truth with regards to God because of a simple extrapolation of the Law of Causality. Our intellect cannot comprehend that which is beyond our intellect (like God implicity and explicitly is), and the closest thing you can get to "reasoning" one's way to God is, arguably, Plato. But this is not the Fullness of the Truth, for even Plato could not identify with his [i]Logos[/i] on a personal level.

In the same manner, dependence on pure Revelation, disregarding Reason, also leads to spiritual ruin and an incomplete view of the One True God. This is true for two reasons. First, we humans are by nature reasoning, rational, and intellectual beings. As such, by following pure Revelation with the use of Reason, we deny our own fundamental mode of decision-making (the use of reason) and thus invalidate such a choice.The second reason this method of God-searching fails is because the denial of Reason necessitates a denial of [i]all[/i] logical certainty and so one is incapable of believing at all.

However, if one accepts both Reason and Revelation as working together, it can be seen that, precisely where Revelation ceases to reveal, Reason can illuminate, and exactly when the limits of Reason come to an end, Revelation can carry you forward. Thus, the One True God can be credibly known to be the God espoused in His Fullness by the Catholic Church on the basis that it is the only example of a theology in which the basic assumptions (Revelation) do not lead to a contradiction of Reason in their Extrapolations.

One example of such a logical breakdown would be Protestantism, which makes the fundamental assumption of [i]Sola Scriptura[/i] and believes this doctrine to be divinely Revealed (in the bible). This doctrine, however, breaks down in the face of Reason, for it defies the Law of Causality, which states that a thing cannot produce something more than itself. However, this is precisely what [i]Sola Scriptura[/i] does by its rejection of the Catholic Church's participation in infallible workings and thus its authority. It claims that a fallible Church created an Infallible collection of writings, which defies Reason in the form of the Law of Causality.

from what I have seen of his posts, Carrdero falls into the dilemma of accepting Revelation at the exclusion of Reason.

- Your Brother In Christ, Jeff

[MorphRC]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Aug 7 2004, 02:41 AM'] are you telling me that the english word "god" originates from "Elohim"? if not, then the conversion of the English Speaking world isn't real, right? we're just worshiping a pagan god we retained through our conversion, right?

your scenario: no, because you are retaining "Anubis" and just trying to relable him to fit our God. [/quote]
Exactly. And thats what scholars have agreed on. That what Muhammad has done, because there is so much arab paganism, and folklore, been kept within Islam, the Hajj, Jinn, The Black Stone, the kaaba.

[MorphRC]

[quote name='carrdero' date='Aug 7 2004, 12:13 PM'] To Morph RC,
My apologies for not responding but if you want to read the same quote I sent to MichaelFilo Posted on Aug 6 2004, 08:40 PM I think this will help answer your quote/question.

Ive read alot of archaeological books and articles about Allah, and archaeologically it is impossible for Muslims to worship the same God. I mean put it this way. Im an egyptian pharaoh and out of all the egyptian gods i chose Anubis to be the one, supreme deity, and label him God, Creator, etc.

Does that mean I worship the same God?


An Answer From Anyone Would Be Cool. Please. Todah [/quote]
Np mate

[Tora-Musume]

[quote name='MichaelFilo' date='Aug 6 2004, 11:28 PM'] Your friend misunderstood the teaching, from what I can tell.

Mankind was made without sin. Adam and Eve both sinned. Therefore, we are all born with original sin. So we are born with sin, until we are baptised. Adam and Eve were born without sin.
[/quote]
She was my friends daughter and I highly dought that a woman in her 20's is going to misunderstand a teaching when she has read the Bible, but then again, she is taught that we are born without sin until we are baptised. I just would like to know why this teaching is like this. It's very confusing. Her mother has also read the bible and has also wondered why a Catholic Religion would teach you 2 different faiths? When I was going to church with my mother, I was thought we are born with out sin. Now I am finding out that we are born with sin until we are baptised and cleansed of our sins. You see where the confusion is here? A catholic faith is stating 2 different beliefs. I was born a Catholic and went to church all the time. But when you are taught one thing and then again taught another, it confuses you.

Gotta Love Me!