Contraception

[Aloysius]

of course the contracpetive ones are sexual sins, while the ones that are abortive are sexual sins and sins of MURDER. both extremely bad, but one is far worse.

[PadreSantiago]

[quote name='Luthien' date='Nov 16 2005, 07:43 PM']PadreSantiago,

I guess you've never seen the dismemberment of a first term child then.

I don't see how you could support abortion if you have seen a human being ripped to shreds.

And yes I have seen it, and I fail to see how anyone with a soul could know what abortion actually is and support it still.
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I don't support abortion. It's called pro-choice for a reason.

I can't even believe you would bring up something like that. Dude I've been to china ok THEY EAT BABIES IN CHINA. So don't try and guilt trip me. I say good day to you, sir. =)

[TheoGrad07]

Contraception is always intrinsically evil because it alters the nature of the sexual act, which is to be unitive & procreative (& must therefore be within a true marriage: permanent, exclusive, heterosexual, and procreative). That doesn't mean every act should be a "baby-making" act; sex can retain the procreative aspect & yet not conceive a child. NFP enables couples to have sex without conceiving. NFP isn't allowed because because it's "natural" family planning, but because it doesn't alter the nature of the act.

As Luthien said, without the procreative aspect you get mutual masterbation.

[PadreSantiago]

you mean nfp is allowed? Well I love mutual masturbation that's like my favorite past time. Reality check, people have sex for pleasure babies is just the icing on the cake. I just want you to know that's how a lot of people feel in these days. So I say good day to you sir as well.

[TheoGrad07]

[quote name='PadreSantiago' date='Nov 16 2005, 10:42 PM']you mean nfp is allowed?  Well I love mutual masturbation that's like my favorite past time.  Reality check, people have sex for pleasure babies is just the icing on the cake.  I just want you to know that's how a lot of people feel in these days.  So I say good day to you sir as well.
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Yes, NFP is allowed; I was clarifying why it's allowed. Just because a lot of people feel that babies are just "the icing on the cake" doesn't make "mutual masturbation" morally good. The pleasure of the sexual act is good, but that's not the only reason for sex. Again, the sexual act must be within a true marriage and be unitive & procreative. Contraception violates this, and that's why it's wrong.

[PadreSantiago]

whatever do what you will. I just can't wait (sarcasm) 50 years from now when all the oil has been used up and overpopulation is so bad in america we have to limit how many children can be in a family and eat babies like they do in china.

[peach_cube]

America will not be overpopulated. As it stands right now we have to use immigration to maintain any population growth.

We have about 65 years worth of easy access oil left. After that we have an unknown amount of oil trapped in areas that are not worth the trouble access at the current oil prices. A gallon of milk still costs more than a gallon of gas.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='PadreSantiago' date='Nov 17 2005, 03:44 AM']whatever do what you will.  I just can't wait (sarcasm) 50 years from now when all the oil has been used up and overpopulation is so bad in america we have to limit how many children can be in a family and eat babies like they do in china.
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We don't have "overpopulation", if we didn't have immigration we wouldn't have enough people to run this country. Scotland has such a severe shortage of babies they are wondering if they will have any population in the future. China's one child pollicy backfired - everyone wanted boy babies so now females area at a premium,, and some border areas are actually kidnapping girls to get wives. Social Security is collapsing in this country [b]presisely [/b]because we aborted 40 million of the generation who would now be payting into it.

[Brother Adam]

It is humorous to see the uneducated try to use the overpopulation myth.

[onathing1]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Nov 17 2005, 11:52 AM']It is humorous to see the uneducated try to use the overpopulation myth.
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I agree....but it sad to see how far our society has fallen

[Laudate_Dominum]

Here are some illuminating quotes from Margaret Sanger, the foundress of Planned Parenthood.

[i]"Birth control itself, often denounced as a violation of natural law, is nothing more or less than the facilitation of the process of weeding out the unfit, of preventing the birth of defectives or of those who will become defectives."[/i]

[i]"The third group [of society] are those irresponsible and reckless ones having little regard for the consequences of their acts, or whose religious scruples prevent their exercising control over their numbers. Many of this group are diseased, feeble-minded, and are of the pauper element dependent upon the normal and fit members of society for their support. There is no doubt in the minds of all thinking people that the procreation of this group should be stopped."[/i]

[i]As an advocate of birth control I wish ... to point out that the unbalance between the birth rate of the 'unfit' and the 'fit,' admittedly the greatest present menace to civilization, can never be rectified by the inauguration of a cradle competition between these two classes. In this matter, the example of the inferior classes, the fertility of the feeble-minded, the mentally defective, the poverty-stricken classes, should not be held up for emulation....
On the contrary, the most urgent problem today is how to limit and discourage the over-fertility of the mentally and physically defective.[/i]

[i]"The campaign for birth control is not merely of eugenic value, but is practically identical with the final aims of eugenics."[/i]

[i]"Our failure to segregate morons who are increasing and multiplying ... demonstrates our foolhardy and extravagant sentimentalism ... [Philanthropists] encourage the healthier and more normal sections of the world to shoulder the burden of unthinking and indiscriminate fecundity of others; which brings with it, as I think the reader must agree, a dead weight of human waste. Instead of decreasing and aiming to eliminate the stocks that are most detrimental to the future of the race and the world, it tends to render them to a menacing degree dominant ... We are paying for, and even submitting to, the dictates of an ever-increasing, unceasingly spawning class of human beings who never should have been born at all."[/i]

[i]"[Our objective is] unlimited sexual gratification without the burden of unwanted children..."[/i]

[i]"The marriage bed is the most degenerative influence in the social order..." [/i]

[i]"Give dysgenic groups [people with 'bad genes'] in our population their choice of segregation or [compulsory] sterilization."[/i]

[i]"No woman shall have the legal right to bear a child… without a permit for parenthood". [/i]

[i]"We should hire three or four colored ministers, preferably with social-service backgrounds, and with engaging personalities. The most successful educational approach to the Negro is through a religious appeal. We don't want the word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population. and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members."[/i]

[PadreSantiago]

if you think oil is gonna last another 65 years without ANY sort of energy conservation or alternative fuel source you are naive. The second largest oil field in the world is almost dried up. It's only supposed to last another 30 years and they have grossly overestimated that in the past. The president doesn't care about finding another fuel source either He was Raised on oil, he owes his whole life to oil. He bows down to the god of oil

[Luthien]

[quote name='PadreSantiago' date='Nov 17 2005, 05:37 PM']if you think oil is gonna last another 65 years without ANY sort of energy conservation or alternative fuel source you are naive.  The second largest oil field in the world is almost dried up.  It's only supposed to last another 30 years and they have grossly overestimated that in the past.  The president doesn't care about finding another fuel source either He was Raised on oil, he owes his whole life to oil.  He bows down to the god of oil
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This sounds like a "I hate Bush" rant.

You seem to put more value on oil than in humans. Humans can survive without oil, they have in the past.

[quote]I don't support abortion. It's called pro-choice for a reason.

I can't even believe you would bring up something like that. Dude I've been to china ok THEY EAT BABIES IN CHINA. So don't try and guilt trip me. I say good day to you, sir. =)[/quote]

So I guess you're way of dealing with it is shoving your head in the dirt and being a slave to indifference.

[PadreSantiago]

Those who make religion their god will not have God for their religion.
Thomas Erskine of Linlathen