Contraception

[avemaria40]

[quote name='PadreSantiago' date='Nov 14 2005, 01:20 PM']wearing a condom can or havin ya Julie use the pill is like 99.9% percent effective so those are odds I can live with. 
Like when a priest sexually molests a young boy because the church forces him to live a celibate life?
[right][snapback]788376[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]


first of all, celibacy is not bad, and secondly, not all celibate priests are child molesters. Don't judge the 'Church on what a bunch of men who couldn't control themselves did (probably b/c they've never learned a little thing called "self control")

[Veridicus]

[quote name='PadreSantiago' date='Nov 14 2005, 12:20 PM']Like when a priest sexually molests a young boy because the church forces him to live a celibate life?
[right][snapback]788376[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

Woah...let's get this straight. These priests did NOT molest young boys because the Catholic Church forces them to lead celibant lives. IF these priests were so repressed at not being able to have intercourse with a woman, I would suspect their victims would be female. These priests most likely [i]already[/i] suffered from homosexual tendencies and when they couldn't handle the celibant sacrifice to God, their homosexual urges manifested in the molestation of young boys. I mean blaming the Church for these priests' behavior is like saying "I had to rob that house because the government makes me pay taxes and i don't have enough money." We have to pay taxes...its part of the responsibility in living in a society, just as a priestly celibacy is part of the responsibility of sharing in Christ's priestly mission. The person who robs a house ROBS THE HOUSE because of intrinsic weakness already present in their nature which manifests under duress, just as a priest who molests a young boy did so because of an intrinsic weakness in his character that manifests under the duress of celibacy.

[Brother Adam]

If you want to know all about contraception, talk to a couple who can't have children.

[PadreSantiago]

[quote]So because she was raped it's her choice on whether to kill the child or not? Just because of someone's immoral and harmful action got this woman pregnant, that is no reason to go and knowingly take a human life away...the best thing to do would be to put the child up for adoption if the mother didn't want the baby...I know someone who was conceived through rape, and she is such an amazing woman! Her mother chose to keep her instead of killing her, because she knew that life is precious and that no child should have to die because of someone else's immoral behavior.[/quote]

I want you to know that I don't believe in abortion i believe in choice. I would rather a child to put up for adoption than aborted but it's not my choice. The point is hey we live in america AMERICA so females have the choice to do what they will with their bodies. Just like I could go and cut off my arms right now if I wanted to. You can't stop me I dare you to try! I'll just sue you....

ok now to [b]onathing1[/b]

Look friend that website you linked is not a reliable source, it doesn't even explain how the morning after pill works. This is some christian website it has bias. Now lets turn to facts now instead of beliefs.

Ok stick with me lets review some basic things first:

Human conception rarely occurs immediately after intercourse. Instead, it occurs as long as several days later, after ovulation. During the time between intercourse and conception, sperm continue to travel through the fallopian tube until the egg appears.

Ok so a woman could have sex and not even become pregnant for another 72 hours!

So what does the morning after pill do?

Progestin prevents the sperm from reaching the egg and keeps a fertilized egg from attaching to the wall of the uterus (implantation). Estrogen stops the ovaries from releasing eggs (ovulation) that can be fertilized.

So you see the morning after pill either doesn't allow the egg to be released from the ovaries in the first place or simply doesn't allow for implantation. so life cannot be terminated if it never began!

I got my information from www.mayoclinic.com yeah that's right Doctors, people who went to college for 8 years told me this, they know things that we don't.

[Veridicus]

[i][quote name='PadreSantiago' date='Nov 15 2005, 08:27 PM']Progestin prevents the sperm from reaching the egg and keeps a fertilized egg from attaching to the wall of the uterus (implantation). Estrogen stops the ovaries from releasing eggs (ovulation) that can be fertilized.

So you see the morning after pill either doesn't allow the egg to be released from the ovaries in the first place [I]or simply doesn't allow for implantation[/i].  so life cannot be terminated [i]if it never began[/i]!

I got my information from www.mayoclinic.com yeah that's right Doctors, people who went to college for 8 years told me this, they know things that we don't.
[right][snapback]790570[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

The Catholic Church teaches that life begins at conception and ends with natural death. Therefore, any chemical which intentionally prevents a fertilized egg (i.e. conceived human being) from attaching to the uterine wall and developing is [i]terminating [/i]that [i]conceived [/i]human life. A large portion of fertilized eggs never naturally implant into the uterine wall after fertilization, but those would be considered to have [i]natural death[/i]. The line is thin but distinguishable...a pill which keeps a human life from deriving sustenance for development directly contradicts the corporeal works of mercy where we are called to give food to the hungry and drink to the thirsty. I don't understand why people can't get this into their heads!!!

[Lil Red]

if you want "unbiased, non-Christian" sources check out
[url="http://www.godlessprolifers.org/"]http://www.godlessprolifers.org/[/url]

or [url="http://www.feministsforlife.org/"]http://www.feministsforlife.org/[/url]

or [url="http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/8383/"]http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/8383/[/url]

[jasJis]

mi amigo, Santiago,
Unfortunately, it's not just a woman's body. Once an egg is fertilized, another person has been started and is growing up. The problem with the hormone pills is that they are not 100% and will cause an abortion if the egg is fertilized.

In the great Country of the USA, we work to protect the weak and innocent. That means that a parent cannot abuse a child because they are bigger and stronger. That means that we don't kill old people because they are done contributing to society and now can only sit around. That means we don't kill downs syndrome persons because the only job they can do is empty the trach at McDonalds and still have to have help to even live in an assisted living institution. That means we don't throw 2 month old babies in the dumpster when our parents throw us out of the house at the age of 16. That also means we don't flush un-born and growing babies down the toilet because we don't want the hassle to give the child up for adoption.

As a man deeply in love (and married to) someone who was a very inconvenient child, I take great offense to the idea people can be cast off like that. As a man deeply in love with family members who have no biological relationship to my family, I cannot understand the thought that some people should be destroyed because one of the chromosone donors forced themselves on another person.

The violence should be stopped mere minutes after it started. We should not readily repeat that violence and kill the innocent child.

[PadreSantiago]

fine but some people have the right to know facts as opposed to just some christian website that doesn't give people enough information to make a choice.

Here's what america is: a contract between it's people and the government saying hey you protect me and I get certain freedoms. Ok well guess what the right to choose whether to take the morning after pill or wear a condom or put a child up for adoption or abort the baby or raise it in a happy home is up to the mother. Not the government. Think about it like this if I want to have my kidney taken out and then throw it on the highway I can do that because it's mine it's in my body. I am the kidney in certain respects. Now if I use the kidney to harm others I've crossed a line. My point being that until the baby comes out of the woman's vagina it is not the realm of the government to decide. Unless the mother is unable to decide or some other weird circumstance. If the baby comes out and is not able to be taken care of by the mother than bam it's time for the government to come help. The government should be reactive not proactive.

[jasJis]

[quote name='PadreSantiago' date='Nov 15 2005, 07:54 PM']fine but some people have the right to know facts as opposed to just some christian website that doesn't give people enough information to make a choice. 

Here's what america is: a contract between it's people and the government saying hey you protect me and I get certain freedoms.  Ok well guess what the right to choose whether to take the morning after pill or wear a condom or put a child up for adoption or  abort the baby or raise it in a happy home is up to the mother.  Not the government.  Think about it like this if I want to have my kidney taken out and then throw it on the highway I can do that because it's mine it's in my body.  I am the kidney in certain respects.  Now if I use the kidney to harm others I've crossed a line.  My point being that until the baby comes out of the woman's vagina it is not the realm of the government to decide.  Unless the mother is unable to decide or some other weird circumstance.  If the baby comes out and is not able to be taken care of by the mother than bam it's time for the government to come help.  The government should be reactive not proactive.
[right][snapback]790606[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]Why does it have to wait until it comes out of the body? What if the mother was shot in the stomach by a robber and killed her baby. Should the robber be charged with murder, or just attempted murder?

[Socrates]

[quote name='PadreSantiago' date='Nov 15 2005, 07:54 PM']fine but some people have the right to know facts as opposed to just some christian website that doesn't give people enough information to make a choice. 

Here's what america is: a contract between it's people and the government saying hey you protect me and I get certain freedoms.  Ok well guess what the right to choose whether to take the morning after pill or wear a condom or put a child up for adoption or  abort the baby or raise it in a happy home is up to the mother.  Not the government.  Think about it like this if I want to have my kidney taken out and then throw it on the highway I can do that because it's mine it's in my body.  I am the kidney in certain respects.  Now if I use the kidney to harm others I've crossed a line.  My point being that until the baby comes out of the woman's vagina it is not the realm of the government to decide.  Unless the mother is unable to decide or some other weird circumstance.  If the baby comes out and is not able to be taken care of by the mother than bam it's time for the government to come help.  The government should be reactive not proactive.
[right][snapback]790606[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
You haven't provided a single fact here, merely an incoherent rant.

Why does where the baby is located determine whether its life should be protected by law? Why shouldn't the mother just be allowed to kill her baby so long as it's in her own home? I mean why should the government tell a woman what she can and can't do on her own private property?

And prior to Roe v. Wade (1973), abortion was illegal in most states. You can't claim that outlawing abortion is contrary to America's founding principles.

Edited November 16, 2005 by Socrates

[Ash Wednesday]

[quote name='Not Chris Zewe' date='Nov 11 2005, 08:37 AM']Yes, because having a kid you don't want or can't afford by accident is like [b]totally[/b] an excellent way to improve family life.
[right][snapback]785629[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

I would venture to say that someone in that position is not ready for marriage and family in the first place -- certainly not how it's defined in the Church.

Padre, you asked about a woman being raped: as conception takes a few hours to occur, a woman can have pregnancy prevented through non-abortive means at a health center after she is attacked.The church does allow this, as rape is not the same as a consensual marital act. If a woman is raped she should get medical attention immediately as it is -- to collect samples and DNA for criminal justice purposes.

[quote]Anyone who deosnt think that contraception is a mortal sin should read the Catechism of the Catholic Church.[/quote]

OMG! Rick, you said "mortal sin" ...I'm telling.

[PadreSantiago]

I can say it and I just did. Roe vs. wade was just americas wake up call. By your logic just because we didn't give african americans civil rights until the 1960s it was ok that they didn't have it before hand.

[Luthien]

PadreSantiago,

I guess you've never seen the dismemberment of a first term child then.

I don't see how you could support abortion if you have seen a human being ripped to shreds.

And yes I have seen it, and I fail to see how anyone with a soul could know what abortion actually is and support it still.

[chickens4life]

Why are people even arguing about wether or not the different kinds of contraception are abortive or not?
The church teachs that all kinds of contraception are sinful, not just the abortive ones...
Everyone keeps saying that they think that it is O.K. because this or that, it would apear to my there is alittle to much "thought" and not enough faith being exersized here.
God Bless

[Luthien]

[quote name='chickens4life' date='Nov 16 2005, 06:52 PM']Why are people even arguing about wether or not the different kinds of contraception are abortive or not? 
The church teachs that all kinds of contraception are sinful, not just the abortive ones... 
Everyone keeps saying that they think that it is O.K. because this or that, it would apear to my there is alittle to much "thought" and not enough faith being exersized here. 
God Bless
[right][snapback]791993[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]



If you seperate the procreative aspect of sex from the unitive aspect, you get mutual masterbation.