louisville Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 how might i go about defending the argument from protestants that say that it is harder to have a personal relationship with Jesus in the Catholic Church because of various "distractions" (priests, Mary, Saints are what i am guessing they might be reffering to) i have some ideas on where to start, just need some more input thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 (edited) [quote name='louisville' date='Aug 4 2004, 03:53 PM'] how might i go about defending the argument from protestants that say that it is harder to have a personal relationship with Jesus in the Catholic Church because of various "distractions" (priests, Mary, Saints are what i am guessing they might be reffering to) i have some ideas on where to start, just need some more input thanks [/quote] well, the misunderstanding here is that these things actually disctract us from our relationship w/ Jesus Christ. many protestants make the mistake of assuming that priests, Mary, the Saints, and other Catholic distinctives take the focus away from Jesus and place it on other people or things. but, all of these things point to Christ, have their greatness in Christ, and thus add to our relationship w/ Him. i'll use the three "distractions" you mentioned to illustrate my point. [b]Priests[/b] --if anything strengthens our relationship w/ Christ it is a priest! priests take many of Christ's works and perpetuate them on Earth, and Jesus works through priests to actively and physically work through the lives of man. He gives us grace through the priest, since priests are the rightful ministers and witnesses of the seven sacraments. Jesus forgives our sin through the priest in the sacrament of reconciliation. priests stand "in the person of Christ" when they celebrate the Sacrifice of the Mass and when they consecrate the bread and wine. Jesus "fathers" his children through the priest (that's why we call priests "father"). the bottom line is that priests are intimately connected to our relationship w/ Christ and really only distract from this relationship whenever they are severly negligent in their role as priests. [b]Mary[/b] --every single marian doctrine is "Christocentric" or "centered on Christ." every doctrine concerning Mary is an extension and extrapolation upon a doctrine concerning Christ. this is unmistakable and unavoidable. --Mary is the "Mother of God" b/c Jesus is God. --Mary is held to be immaculately conceived b/c her body was to be the dwelling place of the Lord, b/c Jesus--who exists since the beginning of time--would do no less then to honor His mother in such a perfect way, and b/c when we testify that Jesus saved her from sin before He was even born, we acknowledge the perfection of His work on the cross. --Mary is a perpetual virgin b/c no one can enter through the gate that the Lord has entered and b/c Mary was the "spouse of the Lord" who devoted her entire life to Him. --Mary was assumed into heaven b/c Jesus, in his power, raised her up to be with Him (note: she did not ascend of her own power but was raised into heaven by her Son) and b/c it was Jesus who saved her from the consequences of sin and death. [b]Saints[/b] --the only reason we can even pray to saints to begin w/ is b/c Jesus saved them by his grace. they are in heaven b/c of Him. thus, when we pray to a saint, we acknowledge the saving work of Jesus in the life of that saint. --also, when we pray to saints we affirm that through Jesus Christ we conquer death and that nothing can sever us from the Body of Christ and His Church. all of these "distractions" glorify Christ and actually bring us closer to Him. everthing that makes up Catholic orthodoxy (belief) and orthopraxy (practice) is for the greater glory of God--or we wouldn't do it. i hope this helps...........pax christi, phatcatholic Edited August 4, 2004 by phatcatholic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louisville Posted August 4, 2004 Author Share Posted August 4, 2004 awesome man thanks for the ammo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Ghost~ Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 They don't have Christ in the Eucharist... you can't get much more personal than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 [quote name='~Ghost~' date='Aug 4 2004, 05:18 PM'] They don't have Christ in the Eucharist... you can't get much more personal than that. [/quote] [color=green]AMEN![/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorphRC Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 Ask them. How did the first Christians do it, with the Apostles and their disciples? If they want to keep their stance, then they have to deny that the Apostles had any real power or influence on the first generation of Christians. *Remember the current Priesthood, is traced back to the Apostles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StColette Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 When it comes to Mary one can become soooo much closer to Christ then Protestants like to let on. I was reading something the other day in my student Bible that was describing God's close relationship with Mary. It says the following: " Mary was more united to God than anyone who has ever lived. Not even Moses had this kind of relationship with God. He carried God's Commandments on stone tablets. Mary carried the author of those Commandments in her womb! Moses obeyed God. But in the little home in Nazareth, the Son of God obeyed his mother Mary! " I mean Wow! What better way to grow close to Christ then through the person who was most connected with him, his own mother. Pope John Paul said "that through Mary we come to her Son more easily." And it's so true. Through her mothering ways she helps to guide us to become more like her Son wishes us to be. Christ gave Mary to all of humanity for a reason at the Crucifixion and gave us onto her as well. We were given into her Immaculate Heart which is entirely connected with her Son. I mean after realizing all this it seems that Mary is more of a source of being truly connected with Christ than being a distraction. This topic makes me think about a visionary I read about from Argentina, I don't believe it is approved by the Church since it was a private revelation but it said the following: " In December 1989, Jesus showed Gladys the work of the creation of the world. Then He said to her: In the past the world was saved by the Ark of Noah. Today my Mother is the Ark. It is through her that souls will be saved, because she will lead them to Me. He who rejects My Mother rejects Me. Many are those who allow the grace of God to pass these days." That section makes me think back to what Our Lady said to St. Dominic " One day through the Rosary and the Brown Scapular I will save the world" God Bless, Jennie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorphRC Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 True. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeology cat Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 Yeah, my Protestant friends ask me things like this since I'm in the process of converting to Catholicism. I feel closer to Jesus than ever now, and my friends are beginning to understand how it works Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorphRC Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 Kool. I wish I felt that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
!jesusfreak! Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 yay mary i LOVE her!!!! theres a song about her called "mary did you know" thats really a good song to understand what she did and her sacrifices, theres 1 part in the song that talkes about how she changed Jesus' diapers and gave him baths....thats just makes me think how cool it would be to be the mother of God... i mean, God(as Jesus) came running to her when he got a scrapped knee, isnt that awesome? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeology cat Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 I love that song! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JeffCR07 Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 (edited) [quote]how might i go about defending the argument from protestants that say that it is harder to have a personal relationship with Jesus in the Catholic Church because of various "distractions" (priests, Mary, Saints are what i am guessing they might be reffering to) i have some ideas on where to start, just need some more input thanks[/quote] The basic Protestant objection against the Saints (especially Mary) is that they "get in the way" of our knowing Jesus. Protestants argue that Jesus is our goal, and we should be entirely focused on Him and only Him. However, they are really misconstruing what catholics believe. I would think of it like this: Our journey to heaven and to Christ is a long, windy path that travels over many steep hills and mountains. But, luckily for us, it is not one that we take alone. Christ provides us with friends and companions who keep us company and make sure we don't get lost. When greed seeks to pull me from the path, Dominic is there to wisper in my ear and remind me of Christ's poverty. When sloth tries to stop me from walking, Benedict is there to pull me up and show me the work and labor of Christ. When pride tells me that I don't need to keep going, Francis is there to tell me of Christ's meek and humble heart. When wrath turns me from my journey, Mary teaches me the love of Christ. When gluttony bears me down, Antony is there to tell me of Christ's desert fast. When vanity takes my eyes off of the goal, Mary Magdalene brings me to Christ's selflessness. When envy causes me to desire other things, Augustine causes me to desire nothing but Christ. The Saints are our friends and companions who have already made it to Heaven, calling us home and waving to us and cheering us on. Are we to ignore them just because they are not Christ? We are called to see Christ in everyone, whether they are on earth with us or in heaven waiting for us, and this is precisely what the Church does when it venerates the Saints. my 2 cents... - Your Brother In Christ, Jeff Edited August 9, 2004 by JeffCR07 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorphRC Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 Good stuff jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 right on Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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