White Knight Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 Now I'm not here to agrue, nor start an agruement, but I believe Mary was Born with the Original sin on her, just like everyone else, except for Jesus. I believe all Mary did was give Birth "Virgin" Birth to Jesus and, I believe Jesus had no part of Mary, for if he did, he wouldn't be prefect I believe he was God in incarnate, like [b]ISAIAH 7:14 "Therefore the LORD Himself will give you a sign Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son and shall call his name 'Immanuel'"[/b] Immanuel translates into 'God With US' How did the Catholic Church come to the conclusion that Mary was born without the original sin? and how did they come to believe that she was "assumed" in Heaven? Please Help me on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 [quote]Now I'm not here to agrue, nor start an agruement, but I believe Mary was Born with the Original sin on her, just like everyone else, except for Jesus. I believe all Mary did was give Birth "Virgin" Birth to Jesus and, I believe Jesus had no part of Mary, for if he did, he wouldn't be prefect I believe he was God in incarnate, like ISAIAH 7:14 "Therefore the LORD Himself will give you a sign Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son and shall call his name 'Immanuel'" Immanuel translates into 'God With US' How did the Catholic Church come to the conclusion that Mary was born without the original sin? and how did they come to believe that she was "assumed" in Heaven? Please Help me on this. [/quote] Dear White Knight, Thank you for such a good question. As you are probably aware, these truths have been proclaimed dogmatically in recent centuries. The Immaculate Conception of Our Lady states that, in view of the merits of Christ, Mary was conceived without the stain of original sin. She was still redeemed by Christ, Christ is her saviour, but because of her singular vocation and relation to the Mystery of Christ, she received the grace of preservative redemption. There were certain heresies in the early Church which taught, in some form or another, that "Jesus has not part of Mary". Some stated that Christ was a phantom and not true man, some stated that he was basically man, but with a unique Divine indwelling and thus Mary didn't really bring forth the Second Person of the Most Holy Trinity. The early councils of the Church make it very clear that Jesus is true God and true man, and that Mary is truly his mother. Even the verse you quoted implies this. Mary conceived Jesus Christ. Conception is the fertilization of an egg, this occured virginally in Mary by the miraculous action of God. When one considers this, and what we now know of the inner-workings of gestation and fetal development, it is impossible to distance Mary from Christ in such a way. The baby and the mother's hearts beat as one, the mother's very substance nourishes the baby, and they have the most intimate, symbiotic relationship possible. They are as close to one as possible and the baby takes its very life from the mother. Jesus truly took flesh of the virgin Mary. His humanity came from her. This is the view that accords with what the early Church and Councils believed and taught. Because of the mystery of Mary's Divine Motherhood (and for other reasons) the Fathers and medievals were inspired to reflect upon Mary's singular holiness. The tension you pointed out is at the heart of it. If Christ derived his humanity from Mary, how could he be perfect and not have inhereted original sin? The answer was to attribute to Mary a unique and miraculous preservation from sin. This did not always correspond to the Immaculate Conception as it has been defined. It took many centuries for the doctrine to be articulated and various problems to be overcome. But the general trend has always been that Mary has the highest level of holiness possible. For some Fathers and Medievals, because of their limited understanding of biology or because of certain aspects of Theology that were not well understood, the greatest level of holiness that they thought possible was a sanctification in the womb, similar to what has been believed of St. John the Baptist. After certain aspects of the Redemption and the workings of Grace were understood more systematically it became possible to formulate how Mary was in fact preserved from sin from conception. This paved the way for the definition, which was latent in the Church's belief (and practice) from the very beginning. This was the fulfillment of the ever present dynamism which attributed to Mary the highest level of sanctity possible. These heights were discovered in the concept of preservative redemption which affirmed and completed what had been contained in the bosom of the Church from the very beginning. The feast in honor of the Immaculate Conception had been celebrated in the east from very ancient times, and this feast eventually became widespread in the west. So even before the doctrine was formally defined and systematically understood, it was contained in the practice and inherent belief of the Church. To say that Mary was conceived without sin is the negative formulation. It can also be said that Adam and Eve were conceived without so it should not be that radical a proposition. Christ is the New Adam, who was also conceived without sin, and Mary is the New Eve (this is Scriptural and is testified to by the earliest Christian writings and is no doubt an Apostolic teaching). It is fitting that this New Eve would be conceived in a state of Grace so as to be a fitting Mother to the Christ and model of the Church, the Spotless Bride of Christ. There are in fact many, many indications of Mary's sinlessness in Scripture and Tradition. The Church has come to believe in it with the certainty of Dogma because, as Christ promised, the Holy Spirit leads His Church into all truth. As I was hoping to say earlier, the typical definition of the Immaculate Conception is the negative formulation, the positive formulation is that Mary was conceived with the fullness of sanctifying Grace. This is not that different from us being cleansed of sin at baptism. So in one sense you could say she received a baptism at conception. Many Fathers and Doctors have seen this indicated in Gabriel's addressing Our Lady as "Full of Grace". And also the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary in a manner similar to the overshadowing of the Ark of the Covenant, since the Ark was a symbol of radical holiness and absolute purity, this implies that these qualities can be applied to Mary. And the enmity between the serpent and "the woman" (aka, the New Eve, Mary) in Gen 3:15 suggests a complete opposition between the serpent (satan, sin) and the woman (Mary). If Mary was ever tarnished by sin she would be under satan's power which goes against the strength of this enmity that exists between the woman and the serpent. I feel I've not been brief enough so I will stop here. God bless you my friend. [i]O Mary, conceived without sin pray for us who have recourse to thee.[/i] - Prayer of the Miraculous Medal (the medal of the Immaculate Conception) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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