A Reply To Your Sig

[Aloysius]

[url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=17136&view=findpost&p=302440"]thedude did a great job showing that: we AGREE with the Church Fathers on that issue, he cited the Catechism (something ICTHUS failed to do in his attempt to take up the challenge, not only do you have to show what the ECF's said, but you have to show what the Church NOW says and prove that's contradictory. when the Catechism was cited, you could clearly see it was not contradictory to what the Church ACTUALLY teaches)[/url]

[dairygirl4u2c]

thedude did not reply to all the quotes.

[quote]joe mizzi's quotes are on justification, not salvation by faith alone.[/quote]

Justification and salvation are pretty much synonomous are they not?



the dude did not reply to all the quotes.


Clement of Rome and Ignatius we will leave out of the list.

Clement of Alexandria, Apocrates may believe faith needs works. But that does not mean they believe they both play into justification.

Origen is only saying that you must have works if you have faith. Even protestants believe that. The works don’t play into the legal acquittal by God.

Cyprian. Prots believe that they will be rewarded for their works.

Gregory looks like he may believe in faith and works equals salvation the way the Catholic Church understands but not necessarily.

Citing other people who believe in faith and works and not disproving all of ICTHUSs only shows that there is a heterogeny of beliefs.


I think the only thing effective in prot vs catholic dialouge is debating the legitimacy of the papacy. And perhaps the Eucharist.

[Aloysius]

well, ICTHUS's quotes are random and uncited

if you can find for us where they are, perhaps we can find the context

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

[quote]Justification and salvation are pretty much synonomous are they not?[/quote]
No they are not the same thing.

The point of my post was that his quotes do not support Sola Fide, nor do they even address it in their contents. His quotes argue against works of the Law and promote justification by grace, as do mine. His quotes don't contradict Catholicism, and my quotes do not contradict his quotes. My quotes go more in depth on the issue to talk about the role deeds play in salvation, something his quotes left out. That doesn't mean the particular Fathers he quotes believe something different that the Fathers I quoted, they just didn't go as far into the issue in the writings he cited. I am not trying to refute different Fathers. If you look, we quote many of the same ECFs. Do you think that they contradict themselves?

Edited August 10, 2004 by thedude

[Anna]

Has ICHTHUS left the building? :abduction:

[StColette]

I've seen him debating on another message board, maybe he left phatmass.

[Anna]

Ohhhhhhhh. A Catholic message board???

[StColette]

ummm it didn't look all that Catholic to me since they were arguing about the Immaculate Conception and the Catholics on there looked highly outnumbered

[MorphRC]

Hes going somewhere, where generalizations and opinions count as history.

[Anna]

And heresy and errors are regarded as Truth. -_-

[ironmonk]

Don't want you to forget about this one icthus.

You have lied about the faith, just like ian paisley.

Why do you perpetuate lies that you know are not true?

Or were you just anti-Catholic all along and pretended to be Catholic?

If you were really Catholic - then why do you lie about the Catholic Faith?

Why do you avoid questions and points posed on this thread?

If you were never Catholic, realize this, you'll never be able to pull a Catholic away from Christ's Church who knows what the Church teaches... You will only be able to feed on the weak and ignorant... which in time; if they love Christ, they will be Catholic again.

All roads lead to Rome, even if you do not like it.


God Bless,
ironmonk

[ironmonk]

Still waiting....

Many unanswered questions, and many pointless posts on other threads from you.


The more you post, the more you prove the Church right... and my point about anti-Catholics fearing the truth of the Catholic Church.


God Bless,
ironmonk

[ICTHUS]

[quote name='StColette' date='Aug 15 2004, 08:18 PM'] I've seen him debating on another message board, maybe he left phatmass. [/quote]
I haven't left Phatmass.

I moderate the Theology forum on [url="http://www.christianguitar.org/forums"]http://www.christianguitar.org/forums[/url]. I actually came here after being told about Phatmass from John Roberson (mustbenothing) while I was still a Romanist.

[ICTHUS]

[quote]If you were really Catholic - then why do you lie about the Catholic Faith?[/quote] First, Im not lying. Second, I was a Roman Catholic, and blind to the teachings of the Scriptures. Now I am not, and I see clearly. Alleluia!

[quote]If you were never Catholic, realize this, you'll never be able to pull a Catholic away from Christ's Church who knows what the Church teaches... You will only be able to feed on the weak and ignorant... which in time; if they love Christ, they will be Catholic again.[/quote] The weak and the ignorant - you mean....those who don't care about Christ because of Rome's apostate doctrines that do not preach the true Gospel? On the contrary, those who love Christ will give Rome a wide berth because by the Scriptures they shall know her apostasy when they see it.

[Aloysius]

[color=red][font="Courier"]truth.[/color][/font]

i've read the scriptures as well. i believe all things the Catholic Church teaches, and every scripture verse i've ever seen serves only to back up the Church's teachings. Take up ironmonk's challenge and enlighten me to what i'm blind to if you dare.

you are here on PhatMass attempting to get conversions so that you may make people follow the same wicked lies that have stolen your soul. YOU are the one who has followed the doctrines of satan (satan knows the scriptures better than you or I, and he has deceived you) and are now a wolf trying to draw people out of Christ's Flock. In the name of Christ recognize that you have strayed away from Him and found a FALSE CHRIST.

That may be harsh, but I will stand by those words. I may be warned or edited or put into "phishy" for that, but so be it. May God have mercy on your soul.

[color=red][font="Courier"]truth.[/color][/font]

Edited August 25, 2004 by Aloysius