Eucharistic Prayers

[Fides_et_Ratio]

So, I went to daily Mass this morning at my parish (which I'd been avoiding since my spiritual director left) and the new priest completely MADE UP the Eucharistic Prayer this morning... so I wanted to ask him about it after Mass. This is how the conversation went...

Me: "Umm, Father" (he turns around)"I wanted to say Thanks again" (he had heard my confession before Mass started, and we don't have a set time for Confessions during the week) "and, um, I wanted to ask... [u]which Eucharistc Prayer you were using this morning during Mass[/u]?"

New Priest: "Well, [u]there are about 15 or 16 different ones[/u], so I just picked one this morning..." (I'm sure my mouth dropped open here) "...did you like it?"

Me: (turning away to leave before I got myself into trouble and calling over my shoulder) "I'll, umm, let you know..."


Now, you know, and I know that there are [b]ONLY 4[/b] Eucharistic Prayers. So then, before I get really upset and call the Pastor... could he have misunderstood me and been talking about something else? If yes, then what? I am too angry to even try and imagine what else he could think I'm talking about...

He WAS making it up either way... but now, he's either competely stupid as to the Mass, or he lied to me to cover his mistake. And, either of those options, is not entirely okay with me at all.

Any ideas?

[p0lar_bear]

There are 4 normal Eucharistic prayers, but there are a number of Eucharistic prayers that can be used in various situations (for example at a children's Mass or a funeral Mass). I'd have to check as to how many there actually are.

[Fides_et_Ratio]

[quote name='p0lar_bear' date='Aug 2 2004, 09:41 AM'] There are 4 normal Eucharistic prayers, but there are a number of Eucharistic prayers that can be used in various situations (for example at a children's Mass or a funeral Mass). I'd have to check as to how many there actually are. [/quote]
But this was just a regular daily Mass. Not a Children's Mass, etc.

[p0lar_bear]

The Sacramentary only provides the 4 basic prayers, 3 for children's Masses and 2 for Reconciliation Masses, however there may be others provided in more specific rites books (or rites books for specific religious orders, etc).

Rather than being angry or accusing him of lying, you might try asking him about it. Tell him that you thought there were only 4 (or 9 if you include the children's and reconciliation) Eucharistic Prayers and ask him about the others and when they can be used. Approach it not as an attack but as "I don't understand, please explain this to me."

[Fides_et_Ratio]

[quote name='p0lar_bear' date='Aug 2 2004, 10:39 AM'] The Sacramentary only provides the 4 basic prayers, 3 for children's Masses and 2 for Reconciliation Masses, however there may be others provided in more specific rites books (or rites books for specific religious orders, etc).

Rather than being angry or accusing him of lying, you might try asking him about it. Tell him that you thought there were only 4 (or 9 if you include the children's and reconciliation) Eucharistic Prayers and ask him about the others and when they can be used. Approach it not as an attack but as "I don't understand, please explain this to me." [/quote]
I e-mailed the pastor (as I get along somewhat better with him, and, he's in charge) and was un-biased and approached it from an "explain it to me, so I can understand" perspective. Hopefully he will be of some assistance.

I'm just really peeved because this isn't the first time this priest has "changed" the Mass. And I'm really sensitive to the Liturgy and what goes on, etc. (and just spent practically the past 5 months "arguing" about it with a very intelligent priest) So this is somewhat more frustrating to my struggles and understanding of the Liturgy.


This was not a "special" Mass, and there was no reason to use any other Eucharistic Prayer than the 4 provided. And, I'm pretty positive that he was just making this one up and that I wouldn't find it in any official Church documentation.

[Fides_et_Ratio]

Thanks for all your help, p0lar... do by chance have an internet site with the other Eucharistic Prayers? Just for my reference.

I'm pretty sure that either way, the new priest was making it up, as it didn't sound remotely like a "Church-written" Eucharistic Prayer. But I'd like to be somewhat familiar with any other Eucharistic Prayers that there may be.

Thanks again!

[cmotherofpirl]

[url="http://people.cornell.edu/pages/ch97/order.htm"]http://people.cornell.edu/pages/ch97/order.htm[/url]

[Fides_et_Ratio]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Aug 2 2004, 07:48 PM'] [url="http://people.cornell.edu/pages/ch97/order.htm"]http://people.cornell.edu/pages/ch97/order.htm[/url] [/quote]
thank you very much!

Might you know where I would find how these other prayers may be implemented? I've never been to a Mass were anything other than the 4 were used.

[cmotherofpirl]

Neither have I. Post it to Q & A

[cmotherofpirl]

This is from Zenit:
Follow-up: Eucharistic Prayer for the Celebrant(s) Alone?

Related to the reasons why the Eucharistic Prayer is reserved to the priest alone (see July 6) some readers have asked for clarifications on some technical aspects.

Several correspondents asked about priests making additions, adjustments or "corrections," or inserting various personal prayers or community songs, within the Eucharistic Prayers.

These fall under the general heading on unwarranted additions for which there is no justification. We have already commented on this phenomenon in the light of the instruction "Redemptionis Sacramentum."

One reader asked when the Eucharistic Prayer begins. Properly speaking, it begins with the "Lord be with you" of the preface and not after the Sanctus as was once commonly held.

This is clearly seen in the way that the new Latin missal prints the Eucharistic Prayers always beginning with the "Dominus Vobiscum" even in those (the Roman Canon and Third EP) that have no proper preface of their own.

A Michigan reader asked if the Eucharistic Prayer for Children could be used at a regular Sunday Mass.

These Eucharistic Prayers are specifically reserved for celebrations mostly attended by children, and therefore are usually reserved for weekday Masses at schools. They are designed for the mentality and level of understanding of children in or around the age of first Communion.

Therefore, apart from the fact that the use of such Eucharistic Prayers at a regular Sunday Mass is illicit, some parishioners might be justly offended by being treated as 8-year-olds.

A priest from Toronto asked about the proper way of mentioning the bishop or bishops in the Eucharistic Prayer.

The General Instruction of the Roman Missal, No. 149, addresses this point:

"If the celebrant is a Bishop, in the Prayers, after the words 'Papa nostro N.' (N., our Pope), he adds, 'et me, indigno famulo tuo' (and me, your unworthy servant). If, however, the Bishop is celebrating outside his own diocese, after the words 'Papa nostro N.' (N., our Pope), he adds, 'et me indigno famulo tuo, et fratre meo N., Episcopo huius Ecclesiae N.' (me, your unworthy servant, and my brother N., the Bishop of this Church of N.).

"The diocesan Bishop or anyone equivalent to him in law must be mentioned by means of this formula: 'una cum famulo tuo Papa nostro N. et Episcopo (or Vicario, Prelato, Praefecto, Abbate)' (together with your servant N., our Pope, and N., our Bishop [or Vicar, Prelate, Prefect, Abbot]).

"It is permitted to mention Coadjutor and Auxiliary Bishops in the Eucharistic Prayer, but not other Bishops who happen to be present. When several are to be named, this is done with the collective formula 'et Episcopo nostro N. eiusque Episcopis adiutoribus' (N., our Bishop and his assistant Bishops).

"In each of the Eucharistic Prayers, these formulas are to be modified according to the requirements of grammar."

The GIRM does not, however, specify what is to be done when a bishop, other than the ordinary, presides at a concelebrated Mass.

In this case both the local ordinary and the celebrant should be mentioned.

It is also customary only to mention the Pope's name, leaving out the numeral and to omit honorific titles such as cardinal.

It does not seem that the bishop emeritus (that is, retired) is usually mentioned unless he conserves the government of the diocese until a successor is named.

Masses celebrated while the Holy See is vacant omit the words "famulo tuo Papa Nostro N." (N. our Pope). A bishop's name is also omitted when the diocese is vacant or one celebrates while at sea or in other situations where there is no resident bishop.

Because ecclesial unity is formed through the pope and the bishop it is not correct to extend the prayer by specifically naming priests such as "N. our pastor."

[Fides_et_Ratio]

Wow, you are amazing! Thanks so MUCH!

I think I have a meeting with the pastor next week... to talk things over, and so I'm trying to collect anything I can that I've read that pertains to the Mass and the inconsistencies I'm noticing with our new pastor. This will help a lot, as it mentions a few other things he does (albeit, with good intention I'm sure, but still not proper to the Mass).

I've articles from Adoremus and EWTN.. and then of course official documents from the Vatican and the USCCB. But this is great as well!

Thank you again!

[AnomilE]

The best way to go about anything is never to attack, but to seek first to understand, then to be understood. Make sure you fully know what he was speaking of, and where he was coming from. Only then will you truly know where the truth lies and where the remedy needs to take place.

My 2 sense,

AnomilE

[MorphRC]

We had a lay person do the homily here one time. I think that voids the whole mass or something i dont know.

[p0lar_bear]

Having a lay person give a reflection instead of the priest's homily is not appropriate. However, it does not invalidate the Mass.

[Fides_et_Ratio]

[quote name='AnomilE' date='Aug 4 2004, 04:00 PM'] The best way to go about anything is never to attack, but to seek first to understand, then to be understood.  Make sure you fully know what he was speaking of, and where he was coming from.  Only then will you truly know where the truth lies and where the remedy needs to take place.

My 2 sense,

AnomilE [/quote]
I agree, and appreciate your reminder. That's also why I'm meeting with the pastor -- he's a little more intimidating (haha), so I'm less likely to lose control of my mouth and actions.

My youth minister has been keeping me informed, she said he's changing a few other things as well... asking everyone to hold hands during the Our Father, he was singing during the offertory (though the congregation was not given a hymn..), he was just sort of "singing his own song" she said. And she also thinks he might be making up the Eucharistic Prayer-- it sounds remarkably "dumbed down", but she doesn't think it's one of the Eucharistic Prayers for Children. Though, I am still looking for the texts to those?? (and the Reconciliation ones, I found the 4 for "Various Needs and Occasions")

Edited August 5, 2004 by Fides_et_Ratio