Aloysius Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 both the food and the theory of Chow Mein just gives me a migrane let's lay this out. Salvation is from Jesus Christ. End of story. Without Jesus Christ, it is impossible to reach heaven. Noooow, u think it's too exclusive. Well, yeah i guess. Let's add something. We trust in an All-Loving, All-Merciful, and All-powerful God. So we trust in His mercy for people who, through no fault of their own, have not heard the Gospel, however they try to do God's will through the dictates of their own conscience. It's up to God. It's up to us to show them the Gospel, because just because they don't know about the Gospel doesn't mean they'll be saved. It is our sacred duty to preach the Gospel to all nations. In God's plan to save mankind through Jesus Christ, He gave us a Church. Without this Church, there is NO salvation. However, those who believe the first dogma proclaimed by the first Pope are in important union with the Church. What's that. That is "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the Living God" Jesus then said "Blessed art thou, Simon, son of Jonah, for flesh and blood have not revealed this to you, but my Father in Heaven." for that is the rock on which Christ built His Church. He built it upon Peter and his relationship to God. He built it upon a man who would not be allowed to err when making a statement such as this. And so, all Christians are Christians because they believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God. That is how they are saved through the Church. Any questions? I don't think so. Don't give me this chow mein stuff, i'm allergic and it gives me migranes. Pax et Amo Christi! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robyn Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 Salvation is from Jesus Christ. End of story. Without Jesus Christ, it is impossible to reach heaven. Wow! Somebody got it! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 Wow! Somebody got it! We've always "gotten" it, Robyn! We know that Jesus is the means of our salvation. However, Aloysius was NOT denying that the Catholic Church is His Church. That fact does NOT take away from the fact that He's our Savior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robyn Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 yes...but it's such a SIMPLE thing and people just keep giving out handfuls of words that seem unecessary;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Uh, Robyn, it's not THAT simple. If you took the time to read our posts on topics such as this, you'd see that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Huether Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Salvation is from Jesus Christ... simple. But what protestants don't seem to understand is that Salvation is granted to those that do what God had planted us here on earth to do. In addition, it is to do what Christ wishes us to do - spread the Gospel, and live the Gospel. Okay - So we've established that Salvation is from Jesus Christ. We've established that to attain the gift of Salvation from Jesus we must do what he tells us. And that's where it starts to get shady. Prot's believe that ALL Jesus told us to do is accounted for in the Bible. So, since they rely ONLY on the written Word, they are already at a disadvantage - because they are also missing the Spoken Word - the Tradition. But then, unfortunatly for Prot's they don't have someone to explain to them what the Written Word is really saying. So not only are Prot's lacking part of the Word of God (Tradition), but the part that they do have (the Bible) cannot fully and accuratly be interpreted to them! What a mess that is... Catholics on the other hand have remained in the same Church that Christ established to spread the Gospel and Teach what he Taught. So not only do we embrace the ENTIRE WORD of God, but we have the Church, the Authority, to interpret the written word infallibly to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JP2Iloveyou Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Jake, I wouldn't have phrased it exactly that way, but it made me think of an interesting analogy. Imagine a bar stool. What is the best number of poles to put the stool on so that it stands up? The answer is three. Put it on only one pole (the Bible) and it will fall down immediately. Only two (the Bible and Tradition) it may stand longer, but it will still fall down eventually. Put it on three though (the Bible, Tradition and the Magisterium) and it will stay standing. Anymore than that, and it will be wobbly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robyn Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Salvation is from Jesus Christ... simple.as u said: simple. unfortunatly for Prot's they don't have someone to explain to them what the Written Word is really saying. Well I guess God is an idiot then and the holy spirit is just a myth to make us feel special... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted September 11, 2003 Author Share Posted September 11, 2003 "No scripture is a matter of Private interpretation" first encyclical of Pope Saint Peter chapter 2:5. (2 Peter 2:5) I think. It's somewhere in the first pope's writings in the Word of God. Anyway, that tells us that the Holy Spirit doesnt guide everyone individually to know what each scripture passage means. It guides the Church as a whole. SIMPLE! Pax et AmoR Christi! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robyn Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 OK... God is an IDIOT and a LIAR! and I've been listening to his voice for 14 years... John 15:26 "The Helper will come---the Spirit, who reveals the truth about God and who comes from the Father. I will send him to you from the Father, and he will speak about me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[jas] Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 "No scripture is a matter of Private interpretation" 2 Peter 1:20 actually (that passage that everyone throws around) And... please don't misquote scripture. I don't see any translation that says what you just quoted. And yes, I did look at a lot. What they do say, is that "no prophecy in scripture is a matter of private interpretation". Actually I think the way the NIV and others write it really helps understand what it's actually saying. 2 Peter 1:20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. The verse is about the prophet's interpretation, ie, the person who wrote it. Not about us who read it. (how are you supposed to read something without interpreting it anyway?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasJis Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 [jas] What's up wit' yor name, dude? Are ya' dissin' me? Aloysious was quoting an "encyclical", which is a teaching letter from the Pope, it's not Scripture. Robyn and [jas], Yes, God speaks to us individually to our hearts during prayer. He also speaks to us individually through Scripture. Is that the only way He speaks to us? I don't think so. Jesus speaks to us through other people that He ordains and sends out. Remember how he sent out the Apostles and Disciples to preach in His name even before He was crucified? They were sent with a cloak, one pair of sandals, and Jesus' Authority. How do we, or others at that time know in a practical and human way that they were from Jesus? Because they were sent from Jesus' close circle of friends. Others would have seen them traveling with Jesus and were the ones close to Him. They were graced more than the average individual in the huge crowd following Jesus. Because they were graced more, more was required of them. They were identifiable as being from Jesus because of their "physical association" with the core followers. That identifiable legitimacy that preachers have is how we know we are following the Gospel Jesus taught and protects us from following a Gospel that does not come from Peter or Paul. Not only do we learn of God and Jesus through prayer, Scripture, and personal revealation, but we also recieve witness though others as well as the institution of the Church that Jesus Himself establisehd and sent the Holy Spirit to abide in. Jesus sends the Holy Spirit not just to us individuals, but to an earthly institution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted September 11, 2003 Author Share Posted September 11, 2003 ,Sep 11 2003, 03:06 AM] 2 Peter 1:20 actually (that passage that everyone throws around) And... please don't misquote scripture. I don't see any translation that says what you just quoted. And yes, I did look at a lot. What they do say, is that "no prophecy in scripture is a matter of private interpretation". Actually I think the way the NIV and others write it really helps understand what it's actually saying. The verse is about the prophet's interpretation, ie, the person who wrote it. Not about us who read it. (how are you supposed to read something without interpreting it anyway?) srry i made a mistake my brain wasn't wrking also, the interpretations, i sometimes read a reaaly old version cause it's pretty cool, and i remembered it from there. I wasn't lookin it up when i cited it, just did it out of my head. Dumb head. anyway, suuure sure. But what does "Prophecy" mean? does it mean to tell something about the future? nope. Prophet basically translates to teacher, right? So it's saying that no teaching is a matter of private interpretation. You can't just read the Bible and discover what it means in your own private interpretation. therefore, no human teaching should come through human will (which is what happens when someone sits alone and iterprets it for himself) but by human beings moved by the Holy Spirit who spoke under the influence of God. Therefore, the teachings of the Scriptures come through human beings moved by the Holy Spirit who speek under the influence of God, Who are they? Pope and magisterium!!!!!! DING DING DING! jas jis, i was just showin him that a Pope wrote some stuff in the Bible by calling it an encyclical w.ever. Pax et Amor Christi! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[jas] Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 anyway, suuure sure. But what does "Prophecy" mean? does it mean to tell something about the future? nope. Prophet basically translates to teacher, right? Let's apply that prophet=teacher and prophecy=teaching that you suggest to the verse and have a look (not sure I quite agree with those words you're replacing, but let's see anyway) Above all, you must understand that no teaching of Scripture came about by the teacher's own interpretation. Still looks to me like it's saying the same as a said before. That it's referring to the teacher as the person who wrote the thing in the bible, not the person reading it. It's not up to the person writing the things in the bible to interpret what God says, just to write whatever the Holy Spirit gives them. So it's saying that no teaching is a matter of private interpretation. Interpretation by who is the question here I guess... I guess we're just interpreting this verse differently You can't just read the Bible and discover what it means in your own private interpretation. Why not? How are you supposed to read anything without interpreting it? What's the point in reading the Bible if we can't interpret anything in it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God Conquers Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 Is it OK then to call yourself a Christian and deny the divinity of Christ if that's how "the Holy Spirit" has helped you interpret it? How can a Divine Being inspire so many conflicting interpretations? We must look for uniformity in belief through history in order to ascertain where our interpretations fit in with how Christ wants us to worship Him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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