MorphRC Posted July 30, 2004 Share Posted July 30, 2004 [b]The First Sign: The woman in labour[/b] A sign is a revelation that is given in symbol. John is presenting this symbol and inviting his listeners to interpret its meaning. The word 'great' is in an emphatic position in Greek, indicating the importance of what is being expressed here. The significant reality which John is about to describe is seen in heaven, that is to say, in the realm of the transcendent. By means of revelation, the prophet, in the Spirit, sees God's design. His mission is to communicate what he perceives. 'Woman' in the Old Testament is used symbolically for the people of God as spouse (see Hosea 2:1), and as mother (see Isaiah 60:4; 66:7-9). John follows this tradition as he portrays God's people as loved by him, and as having an obligation to do all in their power to carry out the mission of the Messiah on earth and so to bring history to its goal. This mission, as the churches of Asia know only too well, involves them in suffering. Though this passage is not speaking of Mary, in Johannine theology the use of the symbol woman for the community readily brings to mind the woman who was, in fact, the mother of the Messiah. .... Clothing symbolises the way a person or a community is seen by others (see 1:16). John presents the Church, symbolished by the woman, as clothed in the sun: presenting to the world the glory and the nurturing warmth of the exalted Christ (see 1:16). The moon speaks of religious festivities and of the enduring covenant (see Psalm 89:37). These have attained their goal in the life of the Christian community (compare 11:19). The crown indicates victory in the struggle (see 2:10). The stars represent the glory of heaven (6:13). The community is at present undergoing persecution, but it will finally experience glory. The twelve represent the twelve tribes and the twelve apostles (7:5-8' 21:12-14),and so the universality of the community. There is an interesting contrast here with Isaiah who pictures the people as grieving that they have failed to give birth to salvation: [color=blue]Like a woman with child, who writhes and cries out in her pangs, when she is near her time, so were we, because of you, O Lord; we were with child, we writhed, but we gave birth only to wind. We have won no victories on earth, and no one is born to inhabit the world. - Isaiah 26:17-18[/color] [b]Source:[/b] The Apocalyse: An Introductory Commentary, [i]Fr. Michael Fallon, MSC[/i], 'The New Covenant - 12:1-2, Pg 74-75, Published 1990, Chevalier Press. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted July 30, 2004 Share Posted July 30, 2004 interesting..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StColette Posted July 30, 2004 Share Posted July 30, 2004 I agree phatcatholic P.S. Morph glad to see you back in here lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorphRC Posted July 31, 2004 Author Share Posted July 31, 2004 ty Angelies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quietfire Posted August 1, 2004 Share Posted August 1, 2004 Is that all? I would like seconds please? Use a bigger spoon. he,he. Peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorphRC Posted August 2, 2004 Author Share Posted August 2, 2004 Thats all for now sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StColette Posted August 26, 2004 Share Posted August 26, 2004 The woman (12:1): Virgin Mary, the People of God, the Church: She is literally obviously the Mother of Jesus, the Mother of the man child she brought forth, Virgin Mary... Some Commentaries on Revelation see the attempt to devour her Child of verse 4 as initially fulfilled by Herod’s attempts to kill Jesus as a child (Mat.2:16-18)... but they refuse to see Mary in 12:1. Others see Mary's flight with Jesus into Egypt as a type of verse 6, the woman fled into the desert... but again, they refuse to se Mary in the woman of 12:1. But this woman represents also the People of God, the Church, for two reasons: 1- Women often represent religious systems in Revelation. - Jezebel is associated with a religious system of false teaching and life (Revelation 2:20). - The Great Harlot is associated with false religion (Revelation 17:2). - The Bride is associated with the Church (Revelation 19:7-8). Here, the woman represents the People of God, the Church, because all Revelation is about the triumph of Jesus in his Church, with his Church, for His Church, to His Church... for you and me, who are members his Church... and for Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and all the prophets, as Jesus says in Lk.13:28, because the victory of the blood of Lamb is retroactive, for all persons since Adam to the end of the world... ... Yes, the woman represents Israel, and there is general acceptance of it in the commentaries. ... but there are some objections about the Church of Christ, claiming that Jesus "gives birth" to the Church, not the other way around... but John sees a continuum between the OT and NT elect in 21:12-14. Wilson says 'In scripture no sharp dividing line is drawn between the true Israel and the new Israel, because the people of the promise are one people, whether they lived before or after the coming of Christ'... yes, because the victory of the blood of the Lamb, again, is retroactive... it applies both to the Church of the Old Testament, to Israel, and to the Church of the New Testament. 2- The second reason is that in the Bible the prophesies on Mary can be applied to the Church and vice-versa: - Psalm 45, the one on the King and the Queen, looks like a riddle: The Queen is mother of the King, spouse of the King, and daughter of the King... it is Virgin Mary!: Mother of Jesus, Spouse of the Spirit, daughter of the Father... and it is the Church: Founded by Jesus (her Father, in Mt. 16:18).... Bride of Jesus, in Rev.19:7-8... and Mother of Jesus, who was brought forth by the labor pains of the People of God. - The prophecy on Virgin Mary, all generations shall call me blessed, of Lk.1:48, can also be applied to the Church... it it the same prophecy of the last verse of Psalm 45. - Virgin Mary is the Mother of Jesus (Mt.1, Lk.1)... also the Church: The Church is the one used by God to bring Jesus to us... Jesus did not baptize you, but the Church... God teaches you the Bible through the Church... the Church feeds us and cleanses us, and cares for us, as a good mother... the Holy Mother Church! - The promise of Lk.1:31, you shall conceive and bear a son and you shall call him Jesus, can be applied to the People of God, the Church of the Old Testament, to Israel. - In Gen.3:15, again, the woman represents Virgin Mary and the Church. The Looks of the Woman: A great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven: A woman... (12:1-2). - A woman, the weaker part of the world, but the spouse of Christ, and the mother of the saints... and she is arrayed in heavenly splendor, clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. - Clothed with the sun: Christ is the Sun of righteousness or of justice (Mal.4:2). - The moon under her feet: That is the world, she stands upon it, but lives above it; her heart and hope are not set upon worldly things, but on the things that are in heaven, where her head is. - A crown of twelve stars on her head: The 12 Tribes of Israel and the 12 apostles (Rev.21:12-14). - She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth: The pain described refers to the travail of Israel at the time of Jesus’ birth, under Roman occupation and oppression... and the pain of Mary, She wrapped him in cloths and placed him in a manger, because there was no room for them in the inn (Lk.2:7)... can you imagine it?: No room, no bed, no doctor, no nurses... and baby Jesus in a manger!. Provided by [url="http://www.biblia.com/bible/rev12.htm#Mary"]St Jerome Online Bible Commentary[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorphRC Posted August 26, 2004 Author Share Posted August 26, 2004 Thx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted August 26, 2004 Share Posted August 26, 2004 how on earth did you find that page colette? that site is nothing but a maze to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StColette Posted August 26, 2004 Share Posted August 26, 2004 well around almost 2 am you'll be surprised by what you can find lol in fact I'm not really sure how I found it lol I just started clickin lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted August 26, 2004 Share Posted August 26, 2004 ugh! that site drives me insane! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StColette Posted August 26, 2004 Share Posted August 26, 2004 Okie pokie on this page [url="http://biblia.com/jesusbible/"]http://biblia.com/jesusbible/[/url] you'll see a part that says Jesus in Each Book of the Bible, a quick outline. Click that. Then scroll down to Revelation, select the chapter, and there you go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted August 26, 2004 Share Posted August 26, 2004 cool, thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StColette Posted August 26, 2004 Share Posted August 26, 2004 no prob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorphRC Posted August 27, 2004 Author Share Posted August 27, 2004 I just started clicking links and got what i wanted lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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