Jesus Made One Church.

[Guest Celestial Rose]

:huh:

Anyone familiar with Galatians 3: 1 - 29??

1 Oh, foolish Galatians! What magician has cast an evil spell on you? For you used to see the meaning of Jesus Christ's death as clearly as though I had shown you a signboard with a picture of Christ dying on the cross. 2 Let me ask you this one question: Did you receive the Holy Spirit by keeping the law? Of course not, for the Holy Spirit came upon you only after you believed the message you heard about Christ. 3 Have you lost your senses? After starting your Christian lives in the Spirit, why are you now trying to become perfect by your own human effort? 4 You have suffered so much for the Good News. Surely it was not in vain, was it? Are you now going to just throw it all away? 5 I ask you again, does God give you the Holy Spirit and work miracles among you because you obey the law of Moses? Of course not! It is because you believe the message you heard about Christ.

6 In the same way, "Abraham believed God, so God declared him righteous because of his faith." F9 7 The real children of Abraham, then, are all those who put their faith in God. 8 What's more, the Scriptures looked forward to this time when God would accept the Gentiles, too, on the basis of their faith. God promised this good news to Abraham long ago when he said, "All nations will be blessed through you." F10 9 And so it is: All who put their faith in Christ share the same blessing Abraham received because of his faith. 10 But those who depend on the law to make them right with God are under his curse, for the Scriptures say, "Cursed is everyone who does not observe and obey all these commands that are written in God's Book of the Law." F11 11 Consequently, it is clear that no one can ever be right with God by trying to keep the law. For the Scriptures say, "It is through faith that a righteous person has life." F12 12 How different from this way of faith is the way of law, which says, "If you wish to find life by obeying the law, you must obey all of its commands." F13 13 But Christ has rescued us from the curse pronounced by the law. When he was hung on the cross, he took upon himself the curse for our wrongdoing. For it is written in the Scriptures, "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree." F14 14 Through the work of Christ Jesus, God has blessed the Gentiles with the same blessing he promised to Abraham, and we Christians receive the promised Holy Spirit through faith. 15 Dear brothers and sisters, F15 here's an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or amend an irrevocable agreement, so it is in this case. 16 God gave the promise to Abraham and his child. F16 And notice that it doesn't say the promise was to his children, F17 as if it meant many descendants. But the promise was to his child – and that, of course, means Christ. 17 This is what I am trying to say: The agreement God made with Abraham could not be canceled 430 years later when God gave the law to Moses. God would be breaking his promise. 18 For if the inheritance could be received only by keeping the law, then it would not be the result of accepting God's promise. But God gave it to Abraham as a promise.

19 Well then, why was the law given? It was given to show people how guilty they are. But this system of law was to last only until the coming of the child to whom God's promise was made. And there is this further difference. God gave his laws to angels to give to Moses, who was the mediator between God and the people. 20 Now a mediator is needed if two people enter into an agreement, but God acted on his own when he made his promise to Abraham. 21 Well then, is there a conflict between God's law and God's promises? Absolutely not! If the law could have given us new life, we could have been made right with God by obeying it. 22 But the Scriptures have declared that we are all prisoners of sin, so the only way to receive God's promise is to believe in Jesus Christ. 23 Until faith in Christ was shown to us as the way of becoming right with God, we were guarded by the law. We were kept in protective custody, so to speak, until we could put our faith in the coming Savior. 24 Let me put it another way. The law was our guardian and teacher to lead us until Christ came. So now, through faith in Christ, we are made right with God. 25 But now that faith in Christ has come, we no longer need the law as our guardian. 26 So you are all children F18 of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 And all who have been united with Christ in baptism have been made like him. 28 There is no longer Jew or Gentile, F19 slave or free, male or female. For you are all Christians – you are one in Christ Jesus. 29 And now that you belong to Christ, you are the true children of Abraham. You are his heirs, and now all the promises God gave to him belong to you.

[Aloysius]

Why shouldn't they be?

Of course there are families who don't speak and even hate each other...but they're still family.

Remember the parable of the PRODIGAL SON

Yeah Robyn! remember the parable of the Prodigal son! u and ur whole denomination, COME BACK HOME!

im not sayin ur denomination's doin as bad of stuff as the Prodigal son was, but it's still the same concept!

anyway, yes we are still a family. A Christian family. You might say we have the same blood, like a family would have. However, we're the ones that are still in the house built with the sweat and blood of Jesus Christ, and you're off at a distance tryin to build more houses by tryin to figure out how the sweat and blood of Jesus built ours. I think i like this analogy.

COME HOME!! COME HOME!! We're a lookin down the road for ya everyday in our earthly imitation of the Heavenly Kingdom.

EDIT: guess what i did! just read the first page and replied

oops, there's a second page. Ah well, still a valid comment.

Edited September 12, 2003 by Aloysius

[Aloysius]

   

Anyone familiar with Galatians 3: 1 - 29??

 

1 Oh, foolish Galatians! What magician has cast an evil spell on you? For you used to see the meaning of Jesus Christ's death as clearly as though I had shown you a signboard with a picture of Christ dying on the cross. 2 Let me ask you this one question: Did you receive the Holy Spirit by keeping the law? Of course not, for the Holy Spirit came upon you only after you believed the message you heard about Christ. 3 Have you lost your senses? After starting your Christian lives in the Spirit, why are you now trying to become perfect by your own human effort? 4 You have suffered so much for the Good News. Surely it was not in vain, was it? Are you now going to just throw it all away? 5 I ask you again, does God give you the Holy Spirit and work miracles among you because you obey the law of Moses? Of course not! It is because you believe the message you heard about Christ.

6 In the same way, "Abraham believed God, so God declared him righteous because of his faith." F9 7 The real children of Abraham, then, are all those who put their faith in God. 8 What's more, the Scriptures looked forward to this time when God would accept the Gentiles, too, on the basis of their faith. God promised this good news to Abraham long ago when he said, "All nations will be blessed through you." F10 9 And so it is: All who put their faith in Christ share the same blessing Abraham received because of his faith. 10 But those who depend on the law to make them right with God are under his curse, for the Scriptures say, "Cursed is everyone who does not observe and obey all these commands that are written in God's Book of the Law." F11 11 Consequently, it is clear that no one can ever be right with God by trying to keep the law. For the Scriptures say, "It is through faith that a righteous person has life." F12 12 How different from this way of faith is the way of law, which says, "If you wish to find life by obeying the law, you must obey all of its commands." F13 13 But Christ has rescued us from the curse pronounced by the law. When he was hung on the cross, he took upon himself the curse for our wrongdoing. For it is written in the Scriptures, "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree." F14 14 Through the work of Christ Jesus, God has blessed the Gentiles with the same blessing he promised to Abraham, and we Christians receive the promised Holy Spirit through faith. 15 Dear brothers and sisters, F15 here's an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or amend an irrevocable agreement, so it is in this case. 16 God gave the promise to Abraham and his child. F16 And notice that it doesn't say the promise was to his children, F17 as if it meant many descendants. But the promise was to his child – and that, of course, means Christ. 17 This is what I am trying to say: The agreement God made with Abraham could not be canceled 430 years later when God gave the law to Moses. God would be breaking his promise. 18 For if the inheritance could be received only by keeping the law, then it would not be the result of accepting God's promise. But God gave it to Abraham as a promise.

19 Well then, why was the law given? It was given to show people how guilty they are. But this system of law was to last only until the coming of the child to whom God's promise was made. And there is this further difference. God gave his laws to angels to give to Moses, who was the mediator between God and the people. 20 Now a mediator is needed if two people enter into an agreement, but God acted on his own when he made his promise to Abraham. 21 Well then, is there a conflict between God's law and God's promises? Absolutely not! If the law could have given us new life, we could have been made right with God by obeying it. 22 But the Scriptures have declared that we are all prisoners of sin, so the only way to receive God's promise is to believe in Jesus Christ. 23 Until faith in Christ was shown to us as the way of becoming right with God, we were guarded by the law. We were kept in protective custody, so to speak, until we could put our faith in the coming Savior. 24 Let me put it another way. The law was our guardian and teacher to lead us until Christ came. So now, through faith in Christ, we are made right with God. 25 But now that faith in Christ has come, we no longer need the law as our guardian. 26 So you are all children F18 of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 And all who have been united with Christ in baptism have been made like him. 28 There is no longer Jew or Gentile, F19 slave or free, male or female. For you are all Christians – you are one in Christ Jesus. 29 And now that you belong to Christ, you are the true children of Abraham. You are his heirs, and now all the promises God gave to him belong to you.

true! true!

dont mean to make an argument there, but notice the reference to a picture to help remember Christ's crucifiction? I never saw that before, thanx 4 the great apologetic tool for me to use to defend the Catholic Church :D B)

he condemns them for tryin to be perfect by their own effort. A Catholic truely faithful to the Church's teachings would try to be perfect by Jesus' effort. Sure, they put forth effort, but it's nothin compared to what Jesus is to do for them. And even if they cannot accept enough grace to be perfect now, they shall be made perfect in purgatory.

[JP2]

Skuba Steve, et. al,

Here's a verse that I think is quite appropriate for this topic:

"For the Time will come when people will not tolerate sound doctrine, but following their own desires, will surround themselves with teachers who tickle their ears. They will stop listening to the truth and will wander off to fables. As for you, be steady and self-possessed;put up with hardship, perform your work as an evangelist, fulfill your ministry." (2 Timothy 4:1-5)

It's quite apparent that the writer saw your versions of 'post-denominationalism" coming down the pike. people don't want to know what the Catholic Church teaches, becasue most people today have an aversion to the truth. G.K. Chesterton (noted philosopher) satated" The Christian ideal has not been tried and found lacking by most, ithas been tried and found too difficult."

These massive barns will be filled with people seeking the truth and it's a shame that there will be no substance for them to cling to. It's amesome to have fervor and love for God, but if you hve no defined belief system more than "I love God" or "Jesus is #1" your faith will likely not last too long. We've seen it happen in the catholic Church. For toolong, my generationwas catechized too poorly. We were taught some of the "what" and not nearly enough of the "why". This is beginning to change as the Spirit looks after the Church like never before--raising up an army of young, orthodox Catholics who are yearning for substance and to know the Faith that has lasted for over 2000 years. People will look for substance and truth and when they have had enough of empty teaching about whatever the pastor's personal ideas of what Scripture says, they will look for their true home.

Like it or not people, the Catholic Church is the oldest living institution in existence today. It has been attacked from without and from within and Jesus' promise that "...the gates of hell will not prevail" rings very true. We have done just about everything possible to destroy it ourselves, but God will not let that happen. We are flawed creatures, but he puts us where we need to be to make it work for His glory.

So, when you notice things like this...times when people will no longer tolerate sound doctrine and when they'll switch churches, just because they hear something that makes them feel good, ask yourself if what was foretold all those years ago just might not be true.

God Bless!

JP2

[JP2]

BIG BUMP>>>>>>.....<<<>>>>>>

[foundsheep]

Henry Ford started the Ford company....they haven't been just making model T Fords for 100 years.... the original ones got old and irrelevant and new models have been created, models that cater for the needs of the modern driver.

There have been hundreds, thousands of different models over the last hundred years, but they are all still Fords aren't they?

It's funny how Jesus was always relating the Kingdom of Heaven to things in everyday life when he spoke.

And now that we're on the topic of denominations...I was learning at bible college last night that we are at the beggining of the age of Post Denominational Churches...

if you do your research you'll find that the worlds largest, fastest growing churches are simply evangelical, charasmatic churches that are going crazy about spreading the gospel...they don't belong to any one organisation but are just a body of people thay believe in the same God...

this is the future of the church.... it's not long before we won't have denominations to cling to, there will be no tradition or doctrine to protect us...we will all be a part of the united body of Christ....

there are churches in 3rd world countries planting churches in America and Australia and all the developed nations because they can see a need for us to find the truth that they have.

I think your missing the point. Jesus through both matthew 16:18-19(which is the only time he hands the keys to the kingdom of heaven to anyone) and below john 21:15-17, hes left someone in charge or a chain of command so to speak(apostles)

15 So when they had (1) finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, "Simon, son of John, do you (2) love Me more than these?" He said to Him, "Yes, Lord; You know that I love You." He said to him, "Tend (3) My lambs."

16 He said to him again a second time, "Simon, son of John, do you love Me?" He said to Him, "Yes, Lord; You know that I love You." He said to him, "(4) Shepherd My sheep."

17 He said to him the third time, "Simon, son of John, do you love Me?" Peter was grieved because He said to him (5) the third time, "Do you love Me?" And he said to Him, "Lord, (6) You know all things; You know that I love You." Jesus said to him, "(7) Tend My sheep.

Also especially in the acts of apostles peters(or cephas)authority is shown. Its not just about being a believer. Its about being obediant. Obediant to the church Christ himself started with petros ie rock ie simon bar jonah.

[Robyn]

Yeah Robyn!  remember the parable of the Prodigal son!  u and ur whole denomination, COME BACK HOME!

lol.... I'm not a prodigal

(pretty funky comeback though )

[Dave]

lol.... I'm not a prodigal 

Didn't you say somewhere that you used to be Catholic, Robyn? If so, then I hate to tell you, hon, but you ARE a prodigal.

[Robyn]

I don't remember what exactly I said...I grew up in a Catholic environment, but I was never actually a Catholic. I only went to mass on occasion. My grandparents are devout Catholics, I went with them.

So really, I never LEFT the Catholic church ;)

[skuba steve]

one time i made fetucinni carbonara.

that is the one true carbonara and anyone else that makes carbonara has been horribly mislead.

[Adam]

They may have some truth... but protestants seam to be rather out of context....

Edited September 15, 2003 by Adam

[skuba steve]

...it depends who's listening whether the context is correct or not.

[MC Just]

If the Protest context was correct, there would be no divisions. Protestants struggle with what and what not to believe in the scriptures. There's no solid foundation.

Acts 20:29

I know that after my departure savage wolves will come among you, and they will not spare the flock. And from your group, men will come forth perverting the truth to draw disciples away after them.

Luther broke from the Catholic Church, made his own group, people broke from the Lutheran Church and formed their own groups and so on. Dont tell Catholics they are in error, because they are not the ones who are divided, which means they must be doing something right. Ask yourselves why these groups divided and fell apart and keep dividing even today??

1517 Lutherans (20 groups) founded by Martin Luther.

1519 Anabaptists

- Brethren in Christ, German Switzerland.

- Hutterine Brethren.

- Mennonites, to Pennsylvania, in 1653.

- German Baptists, Dunkards, to USA, 1723.

- German Moravians,

- Separatists and Congregationalists,

- The Amish, to Ohio, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa.

- The Baptists in USA (repudiated the title)

1523 Mennonites (17 groups) founded by several "reformers."

1534 Protestant Episcopal, equivalent of Anglicans.

- Episcopalians, England and America.

- Methodists (split with the Ch. of England).

- Evangelicalism, England and America.

1536 Calvinists, Switzerland John Calvin

- Dutch Reformed Church, Holland.

- Huguenots, France.

- Puritans, England and America.

- Separatists and Congregationalists

1560 Presbyterians (10 groups) founded by John Knox.

1600 Baptists (23 branches) founded by John Smith.

1654 Pietists, Fox

- Quakers, "Society of Friends",England, 1654

- Shakers, "Union Society", England, 1741.

- Moravians, Germany, 1727.

- Pentecostals, USA, 1900

- Charismatics, USA, 1900.

- Fundamentalists, USA, 1900.

1739 Methodists (19 groups) founded by John and Charles Wesley.

1818 Millennialism, William Millers

- Seventh-day Adventists, USA, 1818.

- Seventh-day Baptists.

- Worldwide Church of God, USA, 1934.

- Christian Church, Disciples of Christ, 1809

1827 Disciples of Christ founded by Thomas and Alexander Campbell.

1829 Brethren, Plymouth (8 groups) founded by J. Nelson Darby.

1830 Latter-day Saints (7 branches) founded by Joseph Smith.

1831 Adventists (5 branches) founded by William Miller.

1852 Jehovah Witnesses, Charles Taze Russell

1865 Salvation Army founded by William Booth

1879 Church of Christ, Scientist founded by Mary Baker Eddy.

1896 Volunteers of America founded by Ballington Booth.

1901 Pentecostal Assemblies (9 groups) founded by revivalists.

1927 Four-Square Gospel founded by Aimee Semple McPherson

Oh yeah and this is not a full list, there are over 33,000.

Edited September 15, 2003 by Mc-Just†

[jasJis]

...it depends who's listening whether the context is correct or not.

Does that mean Truth is relevant to the observers perspective?

[Aloysius]

one time i made fetucinni carbonara.

that is the one true carbonara and anyone else that makes carbonara has been horribly mislead.

interesting. may i substitute something that would make the statement apply more to the Catholic Church?

one time JESUS made fetucinni carbonara.

that is the one true fetucinni carbonara and anyone else that makes carbonara has been misled.

fetucinni carbonara=CHURCH

not literally, figuratively, it's a metaphor or parable or whatever