Are We Supposed To Forgive The Devil?

[Aloysius]

i did not seek God. He saught me. He taught me, I didn't teach Him. Your "god" is not god at all, and you would do well to stay away from it whatever it is, because it is dangerous. satan appears as an angel of life, but i guess he's really got a grip on you since you don't even think he exists.

have you ever heard the words "new age"? :/

anyway, yeah, you went and sought the god that you could be most comfortable with, and it makes perfect sense that you didn't find YHWH, the One True God Creator of the Universe, cause He's not a God you're initially comfortable with, He's a God who forgives your sins. God wants us to be good, and Jesus Christ said (he actually said this, it's proven that such oral tradition especially when corroberated over a number of sources throughout a region tends to be correct) "be PERFECT, as your Heavenly Father is Perfect."

my God calls me to a higher standard and doesn't let me sit on my butt content with who I am but gets me in spiritual shape that I can become BETTER than what I am.

[Guest JeffCR07]

carrdero, all I'm looking for is a logical response to my argument. I acknowledge that we cannot contain God within descriptions, but that is not what I am asking you to do. I am merely asking you to defend your position. I have provided a logical attack that seems to prove that the "god" you espouse is not god at all. If this is not true, I am only asking you to defend your position. If it is true, I am only asking you to explain your position. But the only thing you are doing is sidestepping the issue altogether. Please, please respond to my argument in an intellectual fashion.

[Tora-Musume]

[quote name='daugher-of-Mary' date='Aug 3 2004, 09:10 AM']
How is it that you have never trembled in the presence of the Creator of the Universe? Not only Creator, but Divine Lover who formed you out of nothing and called you into being. [/quote]
I wouldn't tremble either. Why would I have a reason to tremble. I am not to fear GOD. Are we to fear GOD? Just a question.

[quote]Aloysius Posted on Aug 3 2004, 09:45 AM
because it was not YHWH whom he spoke with. it was someone impersonating Him.[/quote]

Impersonating=1. play the part of: 2. pretend to be; mimic the voice, appearance, and manners of: 3. represent in personal form; personify; typify

I don't think that carrdero has done anything evil that would make it sound like (in your intuition) that this GOD of his is the devil and is "impersonating" GOD. I see no signs with what I have read from carrdero's post that shows his devilment. And I highly doudt that carrdero is a devil's advocate. carrdero is not an official appointed to argue against a proposed beatification or canonization nor is he a critic who argues either against a popular cause or for an unpopular cause. He has just stated that he has reached a relationship with GOD the way GOD wanted to have a relationship with him. Everyone has their own way of representing themselves in a relationship. For those who are unable to go to church due to health reason, still speak to GOD. Do we need to go to church to speak to GOD? Does that make the entities that are unable to go to church evil since they can't attend mass to speak to GOD? GOD is all around us.

[quote]Aloysius Posted on Aug 3 2004, 10:11 AM i did not seek God. He saught me. He taught me, I didn't teach Him. Your "god" is not god at all, and you would do well to stay away from it whatever it is, because it is dangerous. satan appears as an angel of life, but i guess he's really got a grip on you since you don't even think he exists.
[/quote]
[quote] i did not seek God. He saught me.[/quote]

Isn't it that GOD is suppose to let you seek him? You mean to say that GOD looked for you, searched (where you lost?), attempted (was GOD once your enemy?)

[quote]Your "god" is not god at all, and you would do well to stay away from it whatever it is, because it is dangerous.[/quote]

GOD=Supreme Being worshipped in most religions as maker and ruler of the world. A being thought to have superhuman and supernatural powers and considered worthy of worship. likeness or image of GOD. Person or thing admired and respected.

You are stating that carrdero's GOD is not GOD at all meaning that his GOD is satanic=of Satan; like Satan; like that of Satan; very wicked. Like I have said before. I see nothing in carrdero's post that implies he has done anything satanic or evil. You have come to this conclusion because of the fact that he sees his relationships with GOD differently. To a child, Superman could be like GOD. why you ask? A being thought to have superhuman and supernatural powers. GOD is a person or thing admired and respected. I admire and respect my parents and every entity around me.

[quote]satan appears as an angel of life, but i guess he's really got a grip on you since you don't even think he exists. [/quote]

If Satan had a grip on carrdero, he wouldn't be here. He would be out there creating chaos. I doubt he is doing that.


[quote]JeffCR07 Posted on Aug 3 2004, 10:20 AM carrdero, all I'm looking for is a logical response to my argument. I acknowledge that we cannot contain God within descriptions, but that is not what I am asking you to do. I am merely asking you to defend your position. I have provided a logical attack that seems to prove that the "god" you espouse is not god at all. If this is not true, I am only asking you to defend your position. If it is true, I am only asking you to explain your position. But the only thing you are doing is sidestepping the issue altogether. Please, please respond to my argument in an intellectual fashion.[/quote]

Logical responce to your argument? Is this a place to argue? Does GOD want us to argue who is wrong or right? And what is there to defend? Are you attacking carrdero? A person can only defend themselves if someone is attacking or want to cause harm to them. I believe that carrdero has acted upon and spoken for the once that has found GOD in them.

[quote]I have provided a logical attack that seems to prove that the "god" you espouse is not god at all.[/quote]

That word attack. You are going against as an enemy. You are fighting with carrdero. Are you here to discredit? Does GOD want us to fight? Does GOD want us to attack other's who have a different relationship with him? What does this sound like a work of? If you would like to discuss, discuss. There should be no attacks on anyone. I know you probably do not mean to use that word, but that is what I see.

[quote]carrdero writes: It is impossible to explain or teach you everything about my relationship and my beliefs with GOD on these posts. GOD cannot be contained to forum boards, books, music, TV. GOD doesn't exist for your preconceptions, or my preconceptions or her preconceptions. GOD is GOD. You cannot package GOD for human consumption. GOD cannot be bought ar sold. GOD is not responsible for you or your sins. GOD doesn't think humans are a mistake and GOD has no regrets. If you are looking for a TRUE GOD, one that you can claim and represent for you and/or a society or to conveniently carry around in your pocket and pull out everytime you need it then I think you will be sorely disappointed in any god that you plan to immortalize or revere. GOD is a unique BEing with his own PURPOSE and agenda.[/quote]

[MichaelFilo]

[quote]I wouldn't tremble either. Why would I have a reason to tremble. I am not to fear GOD. Are we to fear GOD? Just a question.[/quote]

If you are in front of the all mighty, would you not tremble? If you get something that you didn't expect to get, wouldn't you shake? When you begin to realize that God is all mighty, and when you realize His greatness, would you not tremble? I think I would break down in joy, as I fear and love him. To not fear God would be to disregard his greatness. If you didn't fear him, then what do you care what you do, does it matter how you sin, you do not fear God, you only love him, and we easily can hurt those who we love and turn our back on them, how much more can we hurt He who is all good and has never wronged us? Fear is necessary so that we don't become arrogant and do as we will. Remember, Lucifier fell because he didn't fear God's punishment, but feared that a race of humans would be raised higher than he was. If he had feared God more, instead of fearing his loss of position, I don't think he would have made that choice.

[quote] don't think that carrdero has done anything evil that would make it sound like (in your intuition) that this GOD of his is the devil and is "impersonating" GOD. I see no signs with what I have read from carrdero's post that shows his devilment. And I highly doudt that carrdero is a devil's advocate. carrdero is not an official appointed to argue against a proposed beatification or canonization nor is he a critic who argues either against a popular cause or for an unpopular cause. He has just stated that he has reached a relationship with GOD the way GOD wanted to have a relationship with him. Everyone has their own way of representing themselves in a relationship. For those who are unable to go to church due to health reason, still speak to GOD. Do we need to go to church to speak to GOD? Does that make the entities that are unable to go to church evil since they can't attend mass to speak to GOD? GOD is all around us.
[/quote]

He isn't talking to the God of Abraham. This is clear by the mindset he has towards his god. There were pagan certain pagan lines of thinking that were similiar in the description of a singular god, and it is much like his. This is not God, this is just a god. The evil in his god is that he just sits back and cares not for humans, therefore it's not loving unconditionally, but a god who loves only those that come to him. He even suggests his god isn't at all eternal, and hasn't always been. He doesn't regard his god as that great, and he only treats him as a friend and any ordinary object. I do believe he said "a good movie is GOD". This isn't and will never be God, his god is not the God of love which is the only True God, who revealed himself, as opposed to some human thinking him up.

[quote]Isn't it that GOD is suppose to let you seek him? You mean to say that GOD looked for you, searched (where you lost?), attempted (was GOD once your enemy?) [/quote]

Are you born with a knowledge of God? We are all lost until he finds us. God DOES look for you. Do you think that the Jews would of worshipped God if he didn't come back for his people, time and time again. No one goes to God unless God plants that seeed somewhere. To suggest we are all born in union and knowledge of God would be weird, because then we'd know everything about God, but we are born with no knowledge of God, and we know about God all that he has chosen to reveal to us.

[quote]GOD=Supreme Being worshipped in most religions as maker and ruler of the world. A being thought to have superhuman and supernatural powers and considered worthy of worship. likeness or image of GOD. Person or thing admired and respected.

You are stating that carrdero's GOD is not GOD at all meaning that his GOD is satanic=of Satan; like Satan; like that of Satan; very wicked. Like I have said before. I see nothing in carrdero's post that implies he has done anything satanic or evil. You have come to this conclusion because of the fact that he sees his relationships with GOD differently. To a child, Superman could be like GOD. why you ask? A being thought to have superhuman and supernatural powers. GOD is a person or thing admired and respected. I admire and respect my parents and every entity around me. [/quote]

He is talking about a god, not The God. Please realize, his god isn't the True God, and therefore, we would like him to stop reffering to him as such. His god has traits of the True God, but not completly at all. His god is fragments of many religions and schools of thought, and he has turned God into nothing than an imaginary friend. His god isn't good, therefore it isn't of God. It is the creation of an idle mind, and as such is a creation of Lucifier. There were good pagan gods, but they weren't God, and therefore were evil in their nature, because they are created and imagined in the hopes of leading people away from the real God.

[quote]If Satan had a grip on carrdero, he wouldn't be here. He would be out there creating chaos. I doubt he is doing that. [/quote]

I think we've all understood that Satan can come in the light of good, and his only goal is to lead people away from God. Now, with that in mind, carrdero has accepted mortal sins, and therefore has been led away from God. It doesn't have to be outright evil. Drugs don't leave their marks right away either, so will Satan over time.

[quote]Logical responce to your argument? Is this a place to argue? Does GOD want us to argue who is wrong or right? And what is there to defend? Are you attacking carrdero? A person can only defend themselves if someone is attacking or want to cause harm to them. I believe that carrdero has acted upon and spoken for the once that has found GOD in them. [/quote]

This is a debate, therefore treat it as such. Indeed, God would love us all to get up and argue and fight for the Truth, he has revealed it to us. He is disproving carderro's god, while carderro cannot defend that his god is God, therefore he will have to admit he is worshipping a lesser diety, or the prince of darkness himself. Carderro is speaking about how he has been misled. Saints and many of the faithful have found God in themselves, and know that he exists all over the place. Carderro is worshiping an incomplete god as Jeff has pointed out. This incomplete god is not The Creator, nor is he any God at all. That is the point Jeff is making, please read his complete post. He is very smart, and has given a good point. Carderro cannot defend his false god and chooses to dodge the point.

[quote]That word attack. You are going against as an enemy. You are fighting with carrdero. Are you here to discredit? Does GOD want us to fight? Does GOD want us to attack other's who have a different relationship with him? What does this sound like a work of? If you would like to discuss, discuss. There should be no attacks on anyone. I know you probably do not mean to use that word, but that is what I see.[/quote]

We attack lies. God knows there is a time to fight. I attack the theory of abortion as a valid resolution to anything. I attack the idea of gay marriages to be valid at all. I attack the idea that mass murder is acceptable to reach an end. This is a debate by the way, you attack points, you don't discuss them. Thats debate, and it's terminology. They are indeed discussing it, even if they don't outright say it. Jeff is trying to show Carderro that his god isn't really God, and that he needs to be careful with what he is dealing with.

Jeff has come into this intellectually, please don't defend someone who is not willing to come to terms with the Truth. There is such a thing as denial, and carderro has shown ample signs. He won't respond to the fact that his god isn't complete, nor perfect, nor anything like the True God. Defending people in denial never helped them.

God bless,

Keep rockin' Jeff,

Mikey

[Guest JeffCR07]

sweet mercy....

[quote]Logical responce to your argument? Is this a place to argue? Does GOD want us to argue who is wrong or right? And what is there to defend? Are you attacking carrdero? A person can only defend themselves if someone is attacking or want to cause harm to them. I believe that carrdero has acted upon and spoken for the once that has found GOD in them. [/quote]

This is the "debate table" so yes, it is a place to argue. God desires that we seek the truth, and this is what I am trying to do. With regards to terminology, we all know that I am not attacking Carrdero, but I am most certainly challenging his beliefs, even "attacking" them as I come to understand them more an more. Keep in mind, I do not do this out of malice, or dislike for him, but out of a sincere and deep desire to help him see the error in his assertations.

Please Carrdero, I'm [i]begging[/i] you to debate this with me: no insulting or dodging arguments - on either side - just a pure, honest, truthful, intellectual debate.

[carrdero]

Daughter Of Mary writes: How is it that you have never trembled in the presence of the Creator of the Universe? Not only Creator, but Divine Lover who formed you out of nothing and called you into being.

One of the first things you realize and appreciate early with a personal relationship with GOD is that there is no-thing to fear. Nothing. No fear in anything. That to me is very comforting. GOD has never threatened me or endangered me. Imagine a life or a BEing or a REALationship where that quality exists. Even death is nothing to fear anymore.

Aloysius writes: because it was not YHWH whom he spoke with. it was someone impersonating Him.

Why can’t this be the other way around? Maybe there was someone else impersonating YHWH or Jehovah or Allah or Zeus or whatever name that other people have assigned to GOD. Have you even considered this? What would you do if this was discovered (through undeniable PROOF and/or evidence) not to be the TRUE GOD but someone impersonating this Being. What are you basing your evidence/faith/belief on? What is your relationship to this Being that is so imperative that you must secure K(NOW)ledge that this has to become a TRUTH for yourself? What will happen when you find out? Will you stop existing? Will you stop BEing good, religious, considerate? I am not asking for a Senate investigation or a Congressional Hearing on the matter all I am asking is that you consider the possibility; what if there is a Being that is impersonating this GOD you are describing. What would you do then?


Aloysius writes: i did not seek God. He saught me. He taught me, I didn't teach Him. Your "god" is not god at all, and you would do well to stay away from it whatever it is, because it is dangerous.

I would admit that there are many reasons why someone would attract themselves to GOD. I confess that there wasn’t any personal tragedy that brought me to GOD or zealous desire but I understand that there are some people who do find their way to GOD in this matter. The way that it was explained to me was that GOD doesn’t really care how people arrive to GOD, GOD is just happy that people do visit once in awhile.

Aloysius writes: have you ever heard the words "new age"?

I think the more politically CORRECT term for this now is “Alternative/Free/Independent thinking” but yes I “used” to hear of this.

Aloysius writes: my God calls me to a higher standard and doesn't let me sit on my butt content with who I am but gets me in spiritual shape that I can become BETTER than what I am.

The GOD that I am in communication with has no expectations of me and I do not have any with GOD. This is how open and honest relationships flourish and are to BE encouraged. If you are expectant of any BEing and if it is your desire for someone to meet those expectations you are bound to be discouraged when they fail to meet with those standards. To answer your question further-no I would not be comfortable in any relationship where I was judged or a relationship where I constantly have to look over my shoulder or to BE in a relationship where I had to be in fear of someone or my life and well BEing. These relationships I do not seek or encourage.



JeffCR07 writes: I am merely asking you to defend your position.

I do not have to defend my position. I do not have to defend GOD. GOD does not have to defend GOD. How can I defend my position on something that may not be able to BE proven? The TRUTH that you seek must come from you. I can explain my beliefs to you all day (if that is what you desire) but the PROOF you seek comes from GOD, not me. I have made my own peace with GOD. I do not have to PROVE my GOD to me, GOD already exists for me. Is this GOD the true GOD? The BEing that I am in a relationship says that this is so? Can I believe this statement? Why not, it doesn’t hurt to believe, believing is free. Do I accept it as TRUTH, no because I have not yet PROVEN or DISPROVEN it to myself yet. Would I be upset if this wasn’t TRUE. Not really, life will go on for me and there is an abundant of other interests that I would choose to pursue. My relationship with GOD is not imperative to my BEing or my existence as it is to you or anyone else. This subject (the PROVING of a ONE TRUE GOD) seems like it is very important to you and others and it is surprising that you are continuing the same avenues to arrive to your conclusions. I (or any other human) cannot validate the existence of my GOD or any other GOD for you. A book (or any writing for that matter) cannot validate the existence of GOD for you. YOU (and nobody else) not only possess the responsibility but the freedom and the right to discover what GOD means to your life and what kind of relationship that you desire to have with GOD. You may consider that a TRUTH from GOD because that is where I got it from.

JeffCR07 writes: I have provided a logical attack that seems to prove that the "god" you espouse is not god at all.

Logic-reasoning or the science of proof. I have not come across anything resembling logic, reasoning or irrefutable proof whatsoever on these boards (including my own passages) since I started posting on Phatmass. I have experienced attacks though. No Jeff, I think the only thing that we actually proven is that you and I, Aloysius and I, do not share the same belief in “some” GOD.

JeffCR07 writes: God desires that we seek the truth, and this is what I am trying to do.

GOD only desires that we seek the TRUTH if it something that we TRULY desire to do (GODs power does not extend to forcing someone to do something that they don’t desire to do). Don’t get me wrong it is very sound advice to keep seeking TRUTH. I am a firm believer of TRUTH. But the moment you come across an individual who does not desire the TRUTH (and GOD K(NOWS) and understands who these people are) then the desire or acceptance of TRUTH is not going to happen for that individual.

JeffCR07 writes:but I am most certainly challenging his beliefs,

Challenge away, I love a good challenge. But I cannot produce TRUTH in matters that remain UNPROVABLE and it will also be safe to assume I cannot produce TRUTH in matters that I don’t understand or that I do not K(NOW) about (Ex. Cars, carpentry, medicine, electronics, economics, politics). Also I would be interested to K(NOW) if you have challenged your own beliefs, this I would think would be far more important, far more important to you than challenging mine.

JeffCR07 writes: Keep in mind, I do not do this out of malice, or dislike for him, but out of a sincere and deep desire to help him see the error in his assertations.

I love you to Jeff but in order to help me see the error, I have to care about seeing the error in my own assertions. I don’t care either way. Like I mentioned before if I find I can’t get my answers from GOD there are other sources yet to explore. I do not believe everything that GOD says to me is the TRUTH. I’m not a puppet I am not gullible, I am not some blind follower of someone else’s beliefs. Sometimes (believe it or not) GOD and I flat out disagree with each other or don’t share the same interest in something (though it seems that GOD prefers to have many more interests than I do). This is understandable in any relationship that we encourage. How do you expect to find error in this? That’s like you telling me about your girlfriend/wife/friend (that I have never met) and me trying to tell you that they are no good for you or that you could do better. I would never do that to anyone. What would happen to the fun of watching you realize that conclusion for yourself?

JeffCR07 writes: Please Carrdero, I'm begging you to debate this with me: no insulting or dodging arguments - on either side - just a pure, honest, truthful, intellectual debate.

Please reread my posts (I think you will find many of your questions answered already in them) and find out exactly what you do not understand about them and put them in order and I will be happy to answer everything I K(NOW) and do everything I can to help you understand. If you have any points or comments to make of your own share them with me. Also explain where you are getting this information from and why you believe this the way you do. I have never received anything like this from you (or anyone for that matter) even though it was requested many times before.

Tora-Musume writes: I wouldn't tremble either. Why would I have a reason to tremble. I am not to fear GOD. Are we to fear GOD? Just a question.

The opposite of LOVE is fear. I think that anyone who experiences fear in their relationship with GOD may not actually K(NOW) who GOD is.

Tora-Musume writes: To a child, Superman could be like GOD. why you ask? A being thought to have superhuman and supernatural powers. GOD is a person or thing admired and respected.

I wouldn’t be surprised 2000 years from now if a futuristic society does discover the publications of Superman comics and start building churches and beliefs around the Man Of Steel. Superman is a very compelling character for righteousness and equality.

MichaelFilo writes: To not fear God would be to disregard his greatness.

Not necessarily so. You can become impressed with GODs greatness but you do not have to tremble in fear, not unless of course GOD plans on using his greatness to harm you at which point you should become unimpressed (quickly).

MichaelFilo writes: If you didn't fear him, then what do you care what you do, does it matter how you sin, you do not fear God.

Nobody ever asked you to stop caring about what you do or not do (it is very important in defining you as a individual) though I think that you should be a little more concerned about living your life to please others (which would be counterproductive to your definition of who you are. Then you become the definition of what they want you to BE which of course is not really existing)

MichaelFilo writes: Fear is necessary so that we don't become arrogant and do as we will.

Fear is one of the key ingredients in arrogance.

MichaelFilo writes: There were pagan certain pagan lines of thinking that were similiar in the description of a singular god, and it is much like his. This is not God, this is just a god. This is not God, this is just a god.

Actually we are all gods. I use caps when typing GOD to signify “the GOD who is the longest living entity”.

MichaelFilo writes: The evil in his god is that he just sits back and cares not for humans, therefore it's not loving unconditionally, but a god who loves only those that come to him.

“Just sits back”? You try observing everyone at every moment and tell me how easy that is.

MichaelFilo writes: He is talking about a god, not The God. Please realize, his god isn't the True God, and therefore, we would like him to stop reffering to him as such.

Whoa-easy there Michael I am just telling you what GOD told me. I am still trying to PROVE or DISPROVE that whole ONE TRUE GOD thing.

MichaelFilo writes: Carderro cannot defend his false god and chooses to dodge the point.

Jeff cannot defend his position, either can you, defending your position
entails much more than just spouting traditional dogma an placing the focus on one individual to “come clean”. Don’t get me wrong the attention is kind of nice but I need something more substantial to this conversation than just book K(NOW)ledge and heresay. Where are you getting your information from? Who told you all this? Explain why you believe like this? What measures have you taken to PROVE this to your spirit? Nobody has given me answers to these questions.

[Guest JeffCR07]

Carrdero, I'll start at the end of your post and work my way up,

[quote]Please reread my posts (I think you will find many of your questions answered already in them) and find out exactly what you do not understand about them and put them in order and I will be happy to answer everything I K(NOW) and do everything I can to help you understand. If you have any points or comments to make of your own share them with me. Also explain where you are getting this information from and why you believe this the way you do. I have never received anything like this from you (or anyone for that matter) even though it was requested many times before. [/quote]

All of my assertions are the teachings of Catholicism. I was born and raised catholic, but only recently began to really care about my faith and my relationship with God. As I began to learn and read as much as possible, my faith in the Catholic Church continued to grow. I have always been an avid debater and I have always loved philosophy, but it was not until recently that I have begun to (poorly, I might add) dabble in apologetics and logically defending the faith and truth of catholicism. I appologize if I didn't tell you sooner, I did not realise you had asked.

There are many things that I don't understand about your posts, but the most important one is the one which I have been asking you to explain:

Webster defines God: God; noun; A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions. ETYMOLOGY: Middle English, from Old English. See gheu()- in Appendix I.

Yet as I showed in my previous post, a perfect being contains all that is good and so must contain the virtues perfectly. The god you describe in your posts lacks justice, and so is imperfect, and so is not God.

I'd really appreciate an explanation, if you're willing to give one.


[quote]in order to help me see the error, I have to care about seeing the error in my own assertions. I don’t care either way.[/quote]

Doesn't this strike you as ridiculous though? By admitting that error exists - especially with regards to spirituality - you admit, even in some small fashion, to the existence of an absolute, objective truth, and then you go and say that you don't care about it. The only thing this can lead to is spiritual ruin

[carrdero]

JeffCR07 writes: All of my assertions are the teachings of Catholicism. I was born and raised catholic, but only recently began to really care about my faith and my relationship with God. As I began to learn and read as much as possible, my faith in the Catholic Church continued to grow. I have always been an avid debater and I have always loved philosophy, but it was not until recently that I have begun to (poorly, I might add) dabble in apologetics and logically defending the faith and truth of catholicism. I appologize if I didn't tell you sooner, I did not realise you had asked.

Well I think that we have discovered one of the obstacles to our understanding. You see Jeff, GOD isn’t Catholic. GOD was not born or raised Catholic. Though GOD is very wise and I am sure GOD has his own opinions about organized religions, GOD doesn’t assert religious doctrine or dogma on people wishing to enter a personal REALationship with him. Another problem to your understanding is that you are trying to come to terms with all of this by blending your faith and truth of Catholicism to a GOD that I am having a relationship with who isn’t Catholic. I am not discrediting or “putting down” the Catholic Church and I am sure the subjects that you are studying are quite fascinating but I do not talk to GOD about apologetics or the Catholic religion because these two subjects are not conducive or relevant to MY spirit or defining WHO I AM or where I want to BE.

Now let me explain to you what GOD has discussed with me about faith.

“Faith is INCORRECT, and is a human-made term. Faith is an excuse bestowed on people by themselves or another individual who is supposed to K(NOW), but doesn't. Never would I ask this of any of MY creations, and I would BE cautious of anyone who was asking it of ME. Anyone asking you to have faith in something because they don't UNDERSTAND something should not BE sharing this belief with other individuals. “

Pretty simple isn’t it? Right to the point, it is one of the qualities I like about GOD.

GOD goes on to explain.

“Faith automatically stops individuals from PROVING UNDERSTANDING for themselves. Faith is another way of saying " you will just have to take my word for it," which is contrary to belief and detrimental to UNDERSTANDING. Faith is not trust or TRUTH. Faith is not free. In fact, faith is very expensive and taxing to the soul that is trying to develop UNDERSTANDING. Get out from under faith. It is not necessary to UNDERSTANDING. It is not necessary to BEing.”

So you see faith in anything is not worth defending.

Now TRUTH on the other hand, if you desire it, is available and worth defending.
Here is what GOD has told me about TRUTH

“TRUTH is also one of the highest forms of LOVE. To give and share TRUTH is a consideration of LOVE. If you have consideration for people, you will find a means of sharing TRUTHs. There is no ONE who is not deserving of TRUTH; that is how ABSOLUTE it is.

And how do we come to our TRUTHS? GOD explains it to me this way.

Belief is not UNDERSTANDING, it is a starting point to UNDERSTANDING. For US to UNDERSTAND, TRULY, WE have to PROVE something to ourselves. Belief is something that WE rely on temporarily until the PROOF manifests into TRUTH. YOU can have beliefs if YOU like. There is nothing INCORRECT about that. It shows YOU have an open mind and a trusting NATURE. These are fine qualities. YOU can have UNDERSTANDING without belief; YOU just relieve the middleman, which is belief. This is a fast way to UNDERSTANDING. It is easy to accumulate many beliefs in one lifetime. This is a very NATURAL human quality. Some people display their beliefs as if they were priceless statues or fine art. Some people wear their beliefs like fancy clothes or exquisite jewelry. They feel a need to express their beliefs in this way. Beliefs help define who a person is. Beliefs come and go, not necessarily through a confirming resolution but through the simple fact that sometimes carrying ALL of these beliefs becomes "extra baggage." Or maybe it is because their current beliefs do not get along with the old ones.

Now if we are to put any belief into any of this what we have been doing so far on these posts is stating our beliefs.

JeffCR07 writes: There are many things that I don't understand about your posts, but the most important one is the one which I have been asking you to explain:
Yet as I showed in my previous post, a perfect being contains all that is good and so must contain the virtues perfectly. The god you describe in your posts lacks justice, and so is imperfect, and so is not God.

As I have explained in my previous posts that even GOD has made mistakes in the past. So GOD may have been imperfect and may have lacked justice at one moment. This is not something to fault GOD with, or fall out of favor from or judge or even misclassify GOD for. Just because GOD has made mistakes doesn’t mean we should refer to him as something differently than the ONE TRUE GOD. The reason that GOD is the ONE TRUE GOD that I have been speaking to is because

1. GOD told me so (again not the strongest evidence going for him)

2. He is the longest living entity that we K(NOW). This is a good thing because in all those moments GOD, if he desired, has probably defined all the qualities (LOVE WISDOM GOODNESS JUSTICE UNDERSTANDING PATIENCE FORGIVENESS) and desires (TO LOVE, SHARE WISDOM, EXPRESS FAIRNESS, TO BE CONSIDERATE) into perfection and is comfortable in the fact of WHO GOD IS. Now did you notice how I wrote “comfortable in the fact of WHO GOD IS” and not comfortable in the fact that JEFF/ PAT/THE CATHOLIC RELIGION/Webster's Dictionary want GOD TO BE?

3 No other entity wants GOD’s job. Nobody wants to BE GOD. If you call on GOD no one else will answer you besides GOD because no one else wants the responsibility of BEing GOD.

GOD doesn’t follow our laws, our logic, our beliefs or even our faiths.

GOD follows GOD”S LAWS, GOD’S LOGIC, and GOD’s TRUTHS.

We don’t follow GOD’s LAWs GOD’s LOGIC or GOD’s TRUTH’s because we are too busy trying to define our own laws, our own logic and our own beliefs so that we can figure out who we want to BE not only as an individuals but as a society.

I will end on this last quote which I think pretty much sums up how I feel about GOD.

“Again, there is no definitive teaching on this, so there is no need to believe as I do, it merely seems to make sense.”
Posted: Aug 3 2004, 08:21 AM by JeffCR07 on DEAR GOD thread

Edited August 3, 2004 by carrdero

[Aloysius]

the devil does want to be God. u have been deceived. u do not know God.

[Guest JeffCR07]

Your "god" is clearly not the One True God, nor is he even a good and just God. The most that can be said of this entity is that he makes you think you are free of culpability. If your heart is truly this hardened against the True God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: the God of the Cross, then there is nothing that we can do, but pray for your return. We shall not, however, cast you our pearls any longer.

[MichaelFilo]

carderro's personal relationship with the devil is very comparable to that of Chris Zewe's (we all remember him, right?). From what he's told me of his pre-wiccan/atheiest period is that a diety revealed himself to him. The diety said he did not care about humans, and that the diety wanted certain things of him (never told me what they were). He said that the diety came to him.

What can I say? The connection? Both have tempered with God's will for all his people to join in the Truth. Chris's diety seperated Chris from Catholicism, and he wasn't a faithful guy to begin with. carderro seems to be under the same category. The lies follow a pattern of inconsitency, and always deny those things which are good, and bring us closer to God.

I say watch out, lest you turn into this being's slave. You are walking dangerous roads. The demon has convinced you of certain things that are wrong. Know this, the rationilism you are using is not of God, and is a product of humanists. God is older than any humanist view. We'll pray for you.

God bless,

Mikey

[carrdero]

Edited August 4, 2004 by carrdero

[Aloysius]

Fear of the Lord is a gift of the Holy Spirit!

God sent us out to convert the world, God commands us to defend Him. Again I assert we do not have the same God, mine is the Holy One who revealed Himself to Israel and came down to earth to free us from sin. Yours is the one who just makes you feel comfortable.

[qfnol31]

Isn't fear of the Lord a gift of the Holy Spirit?

LoL, Al beat me.

Edited August 4, 2004 by qfnol31

[MorphRC]

[quote name='curtins' date='Jul 30 2004, 08:38 AM'] are we??? [/quote]
would he really care?

I think humans have enuf trouble with themselves let alone about some guy downstairs.