EcceNovaFacioOmni Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 ...for unmarried men? Or is there just no way until morally permissible tests can be done within marraige? We are trying to find out if his Hodgkin's lymphoma chemotherapy treatments sterilized him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theculturewarrior Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 maybe this should be moved to the NFP phorum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcceNovaFacioOmni Posted July 28, 2004 Author Share Posted July 28, 2004 I can't get into the NFP forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 leave it here, it's an interesting question i never thought of... maybe it could've been in Q&A but whatever... anyone know the answer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs. Bro. Adam Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 In my humble opinion, I think it'd be ok [b]beacuse[/b] it is for medical reasons, but then again, I don't know for sure, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePrincessKRS Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 I think it depends on what exactly is involved in doing the test... if he has to masturbate then I think it would still be a sin but perhaps lessened culpability? This is one I'd ask a priest about for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1337 k4th0l1x0r Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 From the Catechism (this is the passage you probably want) [quote]2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action."138 "The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose." For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of "the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved."139 To form an equitable judgment about the subjects' moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety, or other psychological or social factors that can lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability.[/quote] The purpose he would be masturbating here is not to derive pleasure, but for performing medical tests. Moral culpability is probably reduced, even though medical tests aren't listed under the reasons for doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLAZEr Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 Masturbating for a medical exam is still a sin. Within marriage teh test is to be done this way. I'm totally serious. I wish I could remember where it was that I read this, but it was a moral theology book. Here it goes: The man would use a normal condom to have intercourse with his wife, but would cut a hole in the tip of it in order to not close the act to pro-creation. After ejaculation the man would remove the condom and tests could be done on the semem that remain caputred in the condom. This really should be in the NFP phorum. I'm gonna try and find a link to this. Here is a link to the USCCB's page on what is permissible and not permissilble in the evaluation and treatment of infertility: [url="http://www.usccb.org/prolife/issues/nfp/treatment.htm"]http://www.usccb.org/prolife/issues/nfp/treatment.htm[/url] Notice that the first statment listed under the procudures that are incompatible with Church teaching is "Obtaining a sample of seminal fluid by masturbation." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 It is an NFP related topic, but many people do not have access to that forum, its an interesting question, so I'm leaving it here for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 (edited) [quote name='BLAZEr' date='Jul 28 2004, 06:48 PM'] Masturbating for a medical exam is still a sin. Within marriage teh test is to be done this way. I'm totally serious. I wish I could remember where it was that I read this, but it was a moral theology book. Here it goes: The man would use a normal condom to have intercourse with his wife, but would cut a hole in the tip of it in order to not close the act to pro-creation. After ejaculation the man would remove the condom and tests could be done on the semem that remain caputred in the condom. This really should be in the NFP phorum. I'm gonna try and find a link to this. Here is a link to the USCCB's page on what is permissible and not permissilble in the evaluation and treatment of infertility: [url="http://www.usccb.org/prolife/issues/nfp/treatment.htm"]http://www.usccb.org/prolife/issues/nfp/treatment.htm[/url] Notice that the first statment listed under the procudures that are incompatible with Church teaching is "Obtaining a sample of seminal fluid by masturbation." [/quote] Blaze that is the way the test is done when someone is married, but this guy is unmarried so it poses a very interesting question. Who will you consult? Edited July 28, 2004 by cmotherofpirl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 I think it should be left here. It has implications to the general theology and the language is no fouler than in the Catechism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcceNovaFacioOmni Posted July 28, 2004 Author Share Posted July 28, 2004 (edited) Yeah I know about the proccess for married men, but the problem is he isn't married yet and he doesn't want to be until he can tell his future spouse whether or not they can have kids. Edited July 28, 2004 by thedude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philippe Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 hmmm interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLAZEr Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 The short of it is that he would not be able to tell his future spouse whether he was infertile or not. There is no morally licit way that I can find where they would be able to test his sperm in order to see if he is fertile. And he would have to be open with his future spouse about the possibility of infertility. Otherwise it would be grounds for an anullment. This is tricky. Does anyone have "Question in Moral Theology" on hand? The one by May. Hmmm . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1337 k4th0l1x0r Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 What if they were to hook something up and wait for a nocturnal emission? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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