Was Paul And Mary Apostles?

[Paladin D]

There is some debate that Paul and Mary were apostles. Are bishops, apostles? Or is it just the 12 Apostles and thats it? Can women be apostles?

[cmotherofpirl]

Jesus picked 12 men as apostles "ones who are sent". After his Ascension he picked Paul as well.
Why would Mary be an Apostle? She was not one who" was sent" but one "who recieved".

God gives us each a specific role to play.
The Apostle St John who lived the longest of the 12, lived thru the reign of several Popes. Several people have asked why he wasn't pope. He wasn't because that was not what God called him to do. He preached and taught, but was not called to lead the Church. That was St Peter's role.

[Archbishop 10-K]

I consider being an Apostle to be basically an ordained role, like a super-bishop. Thus, they have to be men.

Great men such as St. John can live without ever being Pope. Most of the saints aren't Popes, and very few Popes are canonized.

[Paladin D]

If Paul was an Apostle, would that make it the 13 Apostles?

How about Mary M? She was the first to see Jesus rise.


(I'm not debating, just asking questions because I don't understand)

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Paladin D' date='Jul 28 2004, 04:34 PM'] If Paul was an Apostle, would that make it the 13 Apostles?

How about Mary M? She was the first to see Jesus rise.


(I'm not debating, just asking questions because I don't understand) [/quote]
Jesus chose his 12 Apostles very early in his ministry.
Only one Apostle was replaced and that was Judas. Jesus added Paul.

Did Jesus set a limit on how many he could choose to be an Apostle? No.
St Paul said Jesus chose him as an Apostle, so I will take his word on it.

Mary M is a holy saint, but not an Apostle. Just because she was first at the tomb doesn't change her role as a disciple in any way. If Jesus was going to make any woman an Apostle don't you think he would have started with his mother?

[catholicguy]

All Bishops are Apostles, so St. Paul being an Apostle does not make "13". "The Twelve" referred to in the Bible stands for the original 12 Apostles selected by Christ to go forth and teach all nations, baptising them in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, as Baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation. God bless.

[Guest JeffCR07]

confusion probably stems from two points, one dealing with Paul, the other with Mary.

Paul: Wait, how can Paul be an Apostle if there are 12 Apostles and Judas had already been replaced? As Cmom said, there is no set "limit" on the number of Apostles. I think it would also be prudent, however, to note a possible reason for the "extra" apostle. Paul is commonly known as the Apostle to the Gentiles. The 12 were, at least initially, preaching to the Jews. The conversion of Paul - and his subsequent joining of the ranks of the Apostles - could very well be considered as the "turning point" at which the Apostles began teaching to the whole world, and not exclusively the children of Israel.

Mary M: The confusion here is that she is often called the "Apostle to the Apostles" due to her being the first to witness the Risen Christ, and her telling of it to the Apostles. However, this title is merely intended to highlight the amazing privelage that was granted to Mary by Christ, not to insert her as a "14th" Apostle, or to imply that she is somehow on "equal ecclessiastical footing" with the other Apostles.

- Your Brother In Christ, Jeff

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Jul 28 2004, 12:55 PM'] Jesus chose his 12 Apostles very early in his ministry.
Only one Apostle was replaced and that was Judas. Jesus added Paul.

Did Jesus set a limit on how many he could choose to be an Apostle? No.
St Paul said Jesus chose him as an Apostle, so I will take his word on it.

Mary M is a holy saint, but not an Apostle. Just because she was first at the tomb doesn't change her role as a disciple in any way. If Jesus was going to make any woman an Apostle don't you think he would have started with his mother? [/quote]
Jesus only chose 12 Apostles as the foundation stones of His Church, and they were meant to correspond to the 12 Patriarchs and the 12 Tribes of Israel. Later, Judas was replaced by Matthias, and not by Paul. [cf. Acts 1:15-26]

Now, there were other men who became Apostles (at least in some extraordinary sense), men like Paul, Barnabas, Apollos, etc., but they were not enrolled among the 12 founding Apostles. To be one of the 12 founding Apostles the man had to be a witness to the ministry of the Lord, beginning with His baptism until the day that He was taken up into heaven, as St. Peter indicated in the book of Acts. [cf. Acts 1:20-22]

Women were not appointed among the original 12 Apostles, nor were there any female Apostles in the extraordinary sense of the term. Occasionally women were "called" Apostles (e.g., Mary Magdalene has been [i]called[/i] the "Apostle to the Apostles," because she saw that Jesus had risen from the dead and ran to the them in order to tell them), but women have never held the office of an Apostle, nor could they, since the office (ordained ministry) of an Apostle, as with all offices in the Church, was restricted to men alone.

Edited July 28, 2004 by Apotheoun

[Paladin D]

[b]A[/b]postle refers to the 12. While [b]a[/b]postle refers to those who weren't of the 12. Correct?

[crusader1234]

I think apostle kind of applies to everyone who goes out whether they are a missionary or a priest. Apostle applies to the 12... egads, as if knowing Jesus wasn't enough! If you asked Mary Magdalene when you get to heaven if she wishes she was a big a apostle, she probably couldn't care less.

Anyways, I think the title of this thread is funny.