geetarplayer Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 Reiterated: I believe that all roads lead to Rome. If all religions are aimed toward Heaven--or atleast a higher spiritual level after death--than that's where you'll end up if you follow your religion faithfully. I believe that if you follow a religion that is full of love and doing the right thing, you're spreading Jesus' message. Remember, Jesus preached love and forgiveness. How can you say that those who don't know Jesus aren't saved? That makes Heaven sound too exclusive. And who's to say that those who didn't believe in Jesus on earth won't be able to get to know Him before getting into Heaven? Above all, love. -Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 (edited) Mark: I hate to tell you, but that's heretical. Christianity makes a series of claims about God and man -- that Jesus was God Himself, and that he died and was resurrected -- all so that we might be free from our sins. Every other religion in the world denies each of these points. So, if Christianity is correct, then it speaks a vital truth to the world -- a truth that all other religions reject. This alone makes Christianity unique. But it doesn't end there. Recall Jesus' statement in John's Gospel: "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me." In Christianity, we have God's full revelation to humanity. It's true that all religions contain some measure of truth -- the amount varying with the religion. Nevertheless, if we earnestly want to follow and worship God, shouldn't we do it in the way He prescribed? If Jesus is inDouche God, then only Christianity contains the fullness of this truth. We can't know for sure who's saved and who isn't; only God knows that. And the Church teaches that those who, through no fault of their own, don't know Jesus, CAN still have a shot at heaven if they sincerely do God's will as they know it. But WILL they? No one knows that but God. So we as Christians need to help spread the Gospel to those who are ignorant of it. Edited September 7, 2003 by Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geetarplayer Posted September 7, 2003 Author Share Posted September 7, 2003 Thanks Dave. Although it is not enough to make me change my thinking, I must confess, it does bring up some good points. -Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 Although it is not enough to make me change my thinking, I must confess, it does bring up some good points. But Mark, if it goes against Church teaching, why WOULDN'T you change your thinking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geetarplayer Posted September 7, 2003 Author Share Posted September 7, 2003 (edited) Romans 2:12-15 says: "All who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. When Gentiles who have not the law do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or perhaps excuse them." -Mark Edited September 7, 2003 by geetarplayer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 Romans 2:12-15 says: "All who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. When Gentiles who have not the law do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or perhaps excuse them." That passage you cite is NOT in conflict with the Church's teachings. It's referring to those who, through no fault of their own, haven't heard the Gospel. However, it's not saying we should leave such people be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geetarplayer Posted September 7, 2003 Author Share Posted September 7, 2003 (edited) In such cases where people have not heard the Gospels, it isn't a matter of Christian and non-Christian, but rather of Right and Wrong. All people know what is right and what is wrong. It is not a matter of who has heard of Jesus or not, but rather who has lived their lives with love. -Mark Edited September 7, 2003 by geetarplayer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 In such cases where people have not heard the Gospels, it isn't a matter of Christian and non-Christian, but rather of Right and Wrong. All people know what is right and what is wrong. It is not a matter of who has heard of Jesus or not, but rather who has lived their lives with love. You are correct, Mark. However, the impression I'd received initially was that you were implying that all religions were equal and that Christianity was really no different from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geetarplayer Posted September 7, 2003 Author Share Posted September 7, 2003 I believe that to say, "There is no salvation anywhere but within the Catholic Church," is narrow-minded. Christianity is not the only religion that believes in one God. Judaism and Islam preach that. Christianity is not the only religion that encourages love, peace, forgiveness, and all that good stuff. This belief is also held by Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, and Hindus, just to name a few. I'm not saying Christianity is completely equal or completely the same as other religions, but I am saying that non-Christian religions can be good and worthy of God's love. God loves all. Why would He hate His own creations? -Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 Jesus said I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except thru me. THis is rather specific, don't you think. False religion systems are not worthy of love. THe people in them are. Big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marielapin Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 I believe that to say, "There is no salvation anywhere but within the Catholic Church," is narrow-minded. Mark, I'm going to jump in here really quick and add something I noticed. There is no salvation anywhere but FROM the Catholic Church. Meaning, people from other religions CAN be saved, but they are saved BECAUSE of the Catholic Church, and the graces God has given it. I don't have time to go indepth on this, but I know Dave or Ironmonk or Cmom can catch my back here. Christ built His Church for a purpose, if He saw nothing wrong with the other religions of the time, what need would there be for Him to come to earth and found the Church? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 Marielapin is right; it's the official teaching of the Church that there is no salvation outside the Church. That doesn't automatically mean that non-Catholics are hell-bound, though. It just means that the Catholic Church is Jesus' church and that if a non-Catholic who's ignorant of this fact gets saved, they're saved by Jesus Christ through His Church. However, if a person knows the Catholic Church is the True Church but still refuses to join it, then unless they have a change of heart before they die, they will go to hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geetarplayer Posted September 8, 2003 Author Share Posted September 8, 2003 Thanks all. I understand the difference now. God bless. -Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 The highest law is the salvation of souls. The only victory is when a person dies in the state of grace. Only sanctifying grace can save a soul, and permit her the beaitific vision. It is very difficult to keep the Commandments without the sacraments. The normal operation of grace is through the seven sacraments of Christ's ecclesia, the Catholic Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTHUS Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 It is very difficult to keep the Commandments without the sacraments. That's right, and without the grace of God, it's impossible. See the Council of Trent, Canon III Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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