Aloysius Posted July 31, 2004 Author Share Posted July 31, 2004 God reveals truth through the Catholic Church. This subject relates to a truth about the faith. God will not teach you this truth through prayer, He will teach you by the Church He has sent into the world. FYI: I do not have a personal relationship with God. I have a familial relationship with God. We hang out as a family, not just one on one private interpretation private revelation stuff. God has elevated His Church and made it Divine. There is no contradiction between God and His Church. The Church is the Body of Christ, the Church is Divine, the Church is infallible, the Church is spotless. To say "God is bigger than the Church" is putting an unnecessary seperation between God and the Church. We know no more about God on this earth than what the Catholic Church teaches us. God dwells within organized religion, not disorganized religion. Anyway, i have absolutely no personal relationship with God. I don't talk to Him without taking into account the entire family. There is one Absolute Truth, and there are our subjective preferences. These are not truth, these can change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted July 31, 2004 Author Share Posted July 31, 2004 revelation is that which is contained in the Bible and the teaching of the Catholic Church. private revelation is generally influenced by emotions. you cannot find truth by simply asking God, that's not how He decided to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carrdero Posted July 31, 2004 Share Posted July 31, 2004 Aloysius writes:God reveals truth through the Catholic Church. Actually GOD reveals TRUTHS through almost anything. Any outside stimuli that you can feel, see, hear or acknowledge with your other senses can detect TRUTHS. No one should limit their sources to TRUTH. Aloysius writes: God will not teach you this truth through prayer, He will teach you by the Church He has sent into the world. I didn't learn that fire was hot and could burn me through praying to GOD or my direct relation to the Catholic Church. It was something I learned and proved by myself. The ironic part of this statement is that yes sometimes proven TRUTHS can hurt. Aloysius writes: FYI: I do not have a personal relationship with God. FYI: That is okay that you do not have a personal relationship with GOD. GOD understands and you shall not be judged or condemned because of it. But the question remains-do you want a personal relationship with GOD? Some people do not have the time, some feel that GOD is hard to approach (in all actuality GOD is easier to get in touch with then the president or the pope). Some people feel it is unrealistic or are afraid of what they may discover in knowing GOD. Aloysius writes:I have a familial relationship with God. We hang out as a family, not just one on one private interpretation private revelation stuff. I think GOD enjoys large groups or families gathering together for a common interest. I believe that this is why churches exist and people attend them. Aloysius writes: God dwells within organized religion, not disorganized religion. GOD dwells within us. If one of us just happens to be involved in an organized religion or not GOD is with us. Aloysius writes: revelation is that which is contained in the Bible and the teaching of the Catholic Church. private revelation is generally influenced by emotions. you cannot find truth by simply asking God, that's not how He decided to work. Revelation is anything that moves you in spirit and purpose and the dictionary taught me that, not the Bible. As far as finding TRUTH with GOD by just asking, this is what GOD does. This is what GOD excels at-this I believe is GOD's true PURPOSE. To guide and help those who ask for it. To help people understand at anytime, anywhere and in anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted July 31, 2004 Author Share Posted July 31, 2004 (edited) When I speak of TRUTH i speak of truth of FAITH and MORALS. Jesus IS TRUTH. Jesus speaks through His Church. I am a member of a Family, the Holy Apostolic Church, which teaches all truths in regards to faith and morals. anything that contradicts that is fallacy. as regards to my relationship with God, it is not MERELY personal, but familial. That's much deeper than personal. Edited July 31, 2004 by Aloysius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-I---Love Posted July 31, 2004 Share Posted July 31, 2004 thanks for answering my ? carrdero how ironic - I was PLEASED w/ ur answer I very much agree w/ all u have said so more props! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted July 31, 2004 Author Share Posted July 31, 2004 just so you know, you're agreeing with Patrickist theology and not Catholic Theology Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carrdero Posted July 31, 2004 Share Posted July 31, 2004 p0lar_bear writes; You know what? I brought this up with God, and He said He never told you that. You know what? GOD told me you would say something like that. p0lar_bear writes; hmmm...do I believe that God tod you that or believe that God told me that He did nto tell you that? Or do I believe that God told us contradictary things? Do you see the problem? God doesn't lie and God doesn't contradict Himself. So, if two people think God is telling them contradictary things, one of the people is wrong. How do you tell which one is wrong? "If you can deduce truth physically by acquiring evidence to use as proof there is no where else for a truth to go accept to turn into a belief again."-Phillip J. Klass The comments I post are my beliefs, they can't be TRUTHS because I haven't proven them to myself yet. If you notice the majority of the comments posted on these boards are peoples feelings, opinions and beliefs and- I will respect them. As for your comment that you believe that GOD said he never spoke to me I can do nothing more than respect your belief that this incident actually took place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted July 31, 2004 Author Share Posted July 31, 2004 except these are not mere feelings or opinions, but rather Divinely Revealed Truth. We're saying that because our God has personally revealed Himself, we can KNOW about Him without doubt, but with CERTAINTY, we know what is true and what is not true. we do not need to turn to feelings or beliefs, but we are taught the Divine and Catholic Faith which is 100% TRUE. anyway, this debate is getting fruitless, so I shall leave. just know that we don't base our doctrines on our feelings or opinions, but on the constant 2000 yr. old teaching of the Catholic Church regardless of what we feel or think about it. we are approaching it from two different viewpoints: one that does not believe we can absolutely know what is true about God and what is false, and another who believes it has all been revealed through His Word and through His Church and it is not merely belief or opinion or feeling but TRUTH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carrdero Posted July 31, 2004 Share Posted July 31, 2004 (edited) Aloysius writes: except these are not mere feelings or opinions, but rather Divinely Revealed Truth. Then I should be interested to seeing the proof on how you arrived to these TRUTHS Aloysius writes: but we are taught the Divine and Catholic Faith which is 100% TRUE. You are using Faith and TRUTH in the same sentence. Faith is not TRUTH. You are also explaining to me that your TRUTHS define your faith. There is no TRUTH in faith. In fact faith is not even a NATURAL process to TRUTH. You can encourage a belief to TRUTH but you can't faith a belief to TRUTH. Faith automatically stops an individual from proving understanding for themselves. Faith is wishful thinking it is another way of someone saying "You will just have to take my word for it?" Faith may also be considered as a way of believing blindly. Is this how GOD would like us to arrive to our TRUTHS? Wouldn't it be more practical if there was a belief that was really important for us to become a TRUTH that we should exhaust all the evidence and accumulate all the PROOF so that we can pronounce it as a TRUTH. Just because GOD tells me that fire is hot don't you think that GOD would understand that as a human I may want to take this belief and PROVE it to be a TRUTH for myself? Do we not have that freedom as humans to do so? Aloysius writes: just know that we don't base our doctrines on our feelings or opinions, but on the constant 2000 yr. old teaching of the Catholic Church regardless of what we feel or think about it. Though I have a great deal of respect for you and the Catholic Church I don't think that you should confuse quantity as quality. GOD, and the infinite wisdom that accompanies a Supreme Being has been around much longer than that. "The best knowledge to aquire is through experience or observation I never retained much knowledge that was taught to me."-Mark Twain Edited July 31, 2004 by carrdero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tora-Musume Posted August 2, 2004 Share Posted August 2, 2004 (edited) [quote name='carrdero' date='Jul 31 2004, 10:31 AM'] "The best knowledge to aquire is through experience or observation I never retained much knowledge that was taught to me."-Mark Twain [/quote] I agree. I have learned more through experiences and observations than teachings. Specially when I was in school. I was really bored with the teachers and their teachings. I know that they mean well and that they are there to teach me. I never listened to the teachers but managed to get excempt from the regions exam . Now I learn everything through experiences and observations. [quote]Though I have a great deal of respect for you and the Catholic Church I don't think that you should confuse quantity as quality. GOD, and the infinite wisdom that accompanies a Supreme Being has been around much longer than that. [/quote] How long have they been around? [quote]The comments I post are my beliefs, they can't be TRUTHS because I haven't proven them to myself yet. If you notice the majority of the comments posted on these boards are peoples feelings, opinions and beliefs and- I will respect them. As for your comment that you believe that GOD said he never spoke to me I can do nothing more than respect your belief that this incident actually took place. [/quote] When you spoke to GOD, was he objective? Does GOD object? How did GOD come to talk to you? Did you call upon him? Edited August 2, 2004 by Tora-Musume Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted August 2, 2004 Author Share Posted August 2, 2004 it's not quantity, necessarily, it's saying that this is directly through History from the God-man Jesus Christ. my faith is TRUE. i believe it to be TRUTH. I believe that what the Catholic Church professes is TRUE. Thus my faith and what i see as TRUTH are not two different entities. that spirituality has been created by religious relativists who couldn't stand the idea that someone has to be believing falsehoods and thus decided that beliefs should be considered seperate from truths, thus everyone can have their own truth subjective to what they believe. This is not the case. God so loves us that He gave us FULL access to HIM and HIS TRUTH. The Holy Spirit was given to the Apostles and their successors so that they would be led into all TRUTH. I see no difference between my Catholic Beliefs and what is true. pax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tora-Musume Posted August 2, 2004 Share Posted August 2, 2004 [quote name='Aloysius' date='Jul 30 2004, 07:47 PM'] God reveals truth through the Catholic Church. This subject relates to a truth about the faith. God will not teach you this truth through prayer, He will teach you by the Church He has sent into the world. [/quote] So you mean to tell me that in order for me to find truth with GOD, I have to go to Church since he sent the Church into the world? I thought man made Church not GOD. I just need an explanation on this. So you mean to say that GOD held a hammer and started building Churches? Man had nothing to do with building Churches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted August 2, 2004 Author Share Posted August 2, 2004 15 Jesus saith to them: But whom do you say that I am? 16 Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answering said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven. 18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven. The Holy Gospel according to St. Matthew Chapter 16 verses 15 to 19 Jesus Christ built this Church. Jesus Christ is God Almighty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted August 2, 2004 Author Share Posted August 2, 2004 God built the Church. not the physical building, but the Holy Apostolic Institution. He sent men out into the world to teach us all that He had commanded them. He sent the Holy Spirit to those men to lead them into all truth. Unless you don't believe the Sacred Scriptures, in which case you have a much bigger problem. It's one thing to reject the Church, if you reject both the Church AND the Scriptures, you are not Christian. well, actually, if you reject the Church you are not even fully Christian. You are to learn from those God has sent to proclaim His Truth to the world. That is His Divine Plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tora-Musume Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 Gotcha...thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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