Hurting Yourself And How Sinful It Is

[cappie]

From Australia

[url="http://www.couriermail.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,10312884%255E3102,00.html"]Courier Mail[/url]

(Grade 10 - 12 age approx 15 - 17 yrs)

[Tora-Musume]

[quote name='picchick' date='Jul 31 2004, 07:44 PM'] O.K. here is a question. I thought about this before. What if a person just hurt himself but not harmfully. For example, instead of cutting theirselve they would pinch themselves or slap there hand. Do you think that that would be considered hurting yourself? [/quote]
[quote]Chris Zewe
From the Bible - A butchered quote:

"If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off."[/quote]

[quote]Tora-Musume writes: I know I came in this topic too late, but better late than never.  With this quote, does this mean that people that are diabetic who need to prick themselves to see how high their blood sugar is need to cut their hands off?    What about doctor's and nurses? When doctor's operate and nurses prick you with needels and they do drow blood, would they need to cut their hands off too? That would mean almost everyone or ALL would be handless. Or I should read the rest of the post since this has probably been answered.[/quote]

[quote]Quietfire writes:
Tora,
NO!
Absolutely not. And.
Yes, read the entire thread to understand.
Something medically necessary is one thing, but causing yourself harm for the sake of emotional or physical exhileration is something completely different.[/quote]


I know your question has nothing to do with cutting hands off, but it does have a question on harming yourself so I I hope this answers it. Pretty much not my answers but others. They answered my questions.

[Dusty Fro]

Be careful what you say about hurting yourself. Those who cut need your sympathy and help, not condemnation.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Lil Red' date='Jul 23 2004, 09:57 AM'] what about people who don't do it do be like the guys on "Jackass"?  what about those people who sincerely believe that they are releasing their emotional pain by cutting or scarring themselves?  that they believe it's better than committing suicide?

(speaking as a person who used to self-mutilate) [/quote]
Dusty Fro: read my first post.

And polar bear's first post:

[quote]In Lil Red's example, I think the self-mutilization is more an expression of an emotional or mental disorder than sin. Anyone experiencing the desire to self-mutilate should seek professional help. As someone who has suffered from depression as long as I can remember, there is no reason for anyone to go through this alone and there are people who can help. (Not directed to Lil Red as much as anyone who has this problem).[/quote]

[ransom]

My band wrote a song about self-mutilation for our new CD. It's called "Trying to Cope" ( [url="http://www.purevolume.com/recycledsouls"]hear a live clip here[/url] ).

Trying to Cope
Lyrics by: eddie green/Music by RecycledSouls
©2004 RS MUSIC

Verse I:
Well I’m broken down, It seems I have no voice
You’ve given me no choice…again
I bury my anguish in my pillow and scream with all my might
Get back in touch tonight…
I stare down at the gleaming peace upon my desk
I feel the glide of the blade, see the blood confess…my sin
The only thing I feel is the pain that is there


Chorus:
Take this all away…..I’m running inside with nowhere to hide
Slam the door, throw myself on the floor and cry out….
Take this all away….take this burden I cannot bear
The only thing I feel is the pain that is there…
You’ve got to take it away!

Verse II:
Well another day comes, and I put on my cosmetic smile
Face the day, coping for awhile…it seems
What will push me over the edge…
What’s sad is that I would rather die….than live.
Push back the sleeves to reveal the scars of emptiness I feel
Oh God, can’t you hear me, what do I do?
I’m so lost without You, without You!!!!!

Bridge:
Tell me You love me, that it will be all right, please forgive me tonight….
Tell me You’re there when no one cares, God I surrender, I cry out…..


all peace and love under the Son,
ransom

[p0lar_bear]

[quote name='Dusty Fro' date='Aug 3 2004, 03:48 AM'] Be careful what you say about hurting yourself. Those who cut need your sympathy and help, not condemnation. [/quote]
Dusty Fro,

You are absolutely right. People who cut themselves or otherwise self-mutilate for emotional reasons deserve our prayers, our sympathy, and our help. I think that has been made clear. The thread was started by a question about purposely hurting yourself for other reasons, such as on the show "Jackass." That sort of reckless behavior can be condemned, but it is not the same as cutters and self-mutilators.

[Dusty Fro]

i guess people just do things like that for the thrill. Is jumping out of an airplane for skydiving sinful? There's a potential to really hurt yourself. What about things that slowly kill you? Is it sinful to eat a triple heart attack cheeseburger? (I'd say it is, but I'm a vegetarian ) How about running on pavement? Doing that long enough will wreck your knees, and so will ski jumping and motocross racing. Where do we draw the line?

[Dave]

Y'all are blowing this out of proportion. My original question had to do with acting crazy and causing very minor injury to yourself, such as falling down and skinning your knee, bumping your head, getting a small bruise, etc.

[amarkich]

I apologize if this has already been said, but hurting oneself is often virtuous. All of the Saints practiced self-mortification, and it is spoken of in Scripture. While Modernists shy away from these kinds of things, it is clear that beating oneself, wearing a hair shirt, throwing oneself into thorn bushes, etc, etc, are not only acceptable but are holy things and act as a means of subduing passions as well as a means of sanctification in gaining indulgences for pain suffered on earth. God bless.


Edit: Fro, are you a vegetarian for animals' "rights" reasons?

Edited August 3, 2004 by amarkich

[picchick]

[quote name='amarkich' date='Aug 3 2004, 05:41 PM'] I apologize if this has already been said, but hurting oneself is often virtuous. All of the Saints practiced self-mortification, and it is spoken of in Scripture. While Modernists shy away from these kinds of things, it is clear that beating oneself, wearing a hair shirt, throwing oneself into thorn bushes, etc, etc, are not only acceptable but are holy things and act as a means of subduing passions as well as a means of sanctification in gaining indulgences for pain suffered on earth. God bless.


Edit: Fro, are you a vegetarian for animals' "rights" reasons? [/quote]
They were not referring to that. The people who are hurting themselves out of pain are not doing it for offering up purposes or self mortification.

Deliberatly cutting yourself to release an emtional pain is totally different than beating yourself for self mortification. Also, there is lesser self mortification that can be done before you start physical mortification.

For example, a person could say, "Hey, today for self mortification I am not going to watch t.v. today." or "Hey, I am not going on Phatmass today." j/k but you get my drift I hope. There are so many other things we can use to mortify our bodies before we go and start hurting ourselves physically.


Oh, and Dave sorry. I guess I kinda got off topic. Yeah I think that it would be a sin if you were doing it as a dare or to make a fool out of yourself because you have to take care of your body since it is a temple of the holy spirit. It would count as Reckless behavior.

[amarkich]

Picchick, I understand that they were not talking about self-mortification, but I just wanted the fact to be clear so that no one was confused. I disagree with you that we can simply say that we will not watch TV as a valid mortification (compared to physical mortification). Physical mortification has always been supported by the Church and is commanded in the form of fasting and abstinence. To wear a hair shirt which constantly pains oneself and which is constantly mortifying is far superior to giving up an act which is a form of entertainment (which is generally a means of combatting a vice, not necessarily of fostering a virtue). The same is true for all physical self-mortification as it is for fasting and abstinence. These are the highest and most beneficial forms of mortification.

[picchick]

[quote name='amarkich' date='Aug 3 2004, 06:07 PM'] Picchick, I understand that they were not talking about self-mortification, but I just wanted the fact to be clear so that no one was confused. I disagree with you that we can simply say that we will not watch TV as a valid mortification (compared to physical mortification). Physical mortification has always been supported by the Church and is commanded in the form of fasting and abstinence. To wear a hair shirt which constantly pains oneself and which is constantly mortifying is far superior to giving up an act which is a form of entertainment (which is generally a means of combatting a vice, not necessarily of fostering a virtue). The same is true for all physical self-mortification as it is for fasting and abstinence. These are the highest and most beneficial forms of mortification. [/quote]
Yes, I agree that the forms of mortification you talk about is a high form of mortification. I think however that before we start flogging ourselves we need to start at by combatting the things that cause us to sin. Kind of like starting at step one. Am I wrong?

[Dave]

[quote name='picchick' date='Aug 3 2004, 07:01 PM'] Oh, and Dave sorry. I guess I kinda got off topic. Yeah I think that it would be a sin if you were doing it as a dare or to make a fool out of yourself because you have to take care of your body since it is a temple of the holy spirit. It would count as Reckless behavior. [/quote]
Mortal or venial?

[amarkich]

You are correct. That is the correct dichotomy. First we are to combat the things that make us sin (combating vice); then we are to practice self-mortification (fostering virtue). Before we can foster virtue, we must defeat vice. It is senseless for one who is slothful to attempt to foster the virtue of purity by chastising himself before he attempts to combat his vice of sloth, especially if his self-mortification is a cause for physical exhaustion which could contribute to his vice of sloth. God bless.

[p0lar_bear]

For the benefit of those who may not know....


Self-mortification for the sake of virtue should always be under the direction of a spiritual advisor.