flip Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 I know the Church is free will. i need apologetics/ theoogy backing free-will in light of Romans 8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
point5 Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 I havent dug into particulars yet homie, but I wanted to make sure you already checked under the justification, free-will, predestination links in the referece section..they have there own huge page of links. your rapper friend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flip Posted July 22, 2004 Author Share Posted July 22, 2004 thanks ninja Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcceNovaFacioOmni Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 (edited) [b]Catholic Position on Predestination[/b]: [url="http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ120.HTM"]http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ120.HTM[/url] [url="http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/num21.htm"]http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/num21.htm[/url] [quote][b]SUMMARY OF CATHOLIC TEACHING:[/b] 1. God knows all things, including those who will be saved (THE ELECT). 2. God's foreknowledge does not destroy, but includes, free will. 3. God desires all men to be saved. 4. Jesus died to redeem all men. 5. God provides sufficient grace for all men to be saved. 6. Man, in the exercise of his free will, can accept or reject grace. 7. Those who accept grace are saved, or born-again. 8. Those who are born-again can fall away or fall into sin. 9. Not everyone who is saved will persevere in grace. 10. Those who do persevere are God's elect. 11. Those who do not persevere, or who never accepted grace, are the reprobate. 12. Since we can always reject God in this life, we have no absolute assurance that we will persevere. 13. We can have a moral assurance of salvation if we maintain faith and keep God's commandments (1 John 2:1-6; 3:19-23; 5:1-3,13).[/quote] Edited July 22, 2004 by thedude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 [b]Predestination[/b] --[url="http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ120.HTM"]Catholic Predestination[/url] --[url="http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ474.HTM"]Which Body is Closer to Augustine: Reformed Protestants or Present-Day Catholics?[/url] --[url="http://www.cin.org/users/james/files/tulip.htm"]A Tiptoe Through TULIP[/url] --[url="http://www.bringyou.to/philvaz/articles/num21.htm"]Predestination, Catholicism, and Calvinism[/url] --[url="http://www.cin.org/users/james/files/loss.htm"]Are All True Christians Predestined to Persevere?[/url] --[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/THEOLOGY/AUGUSTIN.htm"]St. Aiugustine on Grace and Predestination[/url] --[url="http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/a83.htm"]Grace and Predestination[/url] --[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/SCRIPTUR/PREDESTI.TXT"]Predestination[/url] --[url="http://cuf.org/member/predestination.pdf"]Chosen in Him: The Catholic Teaching on Predestination[/url] --[url="http://www.cathinsight.com/apologetics/election.htm"]The Presumption of Election in Protestant Thought[/url] --[url="http://www.catholicsource.net/Predestination.html"]Predestination and the Catholic Church[/url] --[url="http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ454.HTM"]Calvinist Confusion Concering Election, Valid Baptism, and Christian Brotherhood[/url] --[url="http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ348.HTM"]The "Ransom Theory" of Atonement in the Fathers[/url] --[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/SCRIPTUR/AUG2.TXT"]Augustine Debate on Universal Atonement[/url] --[url="http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ217.HTM"]Calvin, Supralapsarianism, and God's Sovereignty[/url] --[url="http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ484.HTM"]Lutheranism vs. Catholicism[/url] --[url="http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ66.HTM"]Reflections on Judgment and Sufficient Knowledge for Salvation[/url] --[url="http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ121.HTM"]Dialogue on the Nature of God's Foreknowledge and Sovereignty (Molinism)[/url] --[url="http://www.internetpadre.com/providence.htm"]Providence[/url] --[url="http://www.nd.edu/~afreddos/papers/murray.htm"]Leibniz, Divine Foreknowledge, and Human Freedom[/url] --[url="http://www.leaderu.com/offices/billcraig/docs/newcomb.html"]Divine Foreknowledge and Newcomb's Paradox[/url] [b]Total Depravity and Free Will[/b] --[url="http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ167.HTM"]Total Depravity and the Fall[/url] --[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/SCRIPTUR/FILTHY.TXT"]"Filthy Rags" ([b]Isaiah 64:5[/b])[/url] --[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=127922"]Against Total Depravity[/url] --[url="http://www.envoymagazine.com/backissues/article.asp?ID=109"]An Encounter Predestined: Free Will and Predestination[/url] --[url="http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ135.HTM"]"All Have Sinned" (Mary?)[/url] --[url="http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ524.HTM"]The Biblical Evidence for Original Sin[/url] --[url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06259a.htm"]Free Will[/url] --[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/SCRIPTUR/LUTHVER.TXT"]Luther on Free Will[/url] --[url="http://cuf.org/member/predestinationandfreewill.pdf"]Predestination and Free Will[/url] --[url="http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~uctytho/dfwvanInwagen2.html"]On Free Will[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
point5 Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 there you go see you in a couple days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cure of Ars Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 Free will is in the Catholic Bible; [quote]When God, in the beginning, created man, he made him subject to his own free choice. (Sirach 15:14)[/quote] It's a good quote to use when you want to talk about where the Canon comes from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcceNovaFacioOmni Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 Very nice Cure of Ars. And I assume surgury went well today? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cure of Ars Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 My brain is a little disconnected from the pain pills but I'm ok. I had surgery yesterday. I got 8 weeks ahead of me on crutches and it will be 6 months before I’m running and jumping again. God’s will be done. Rupturing the Achilles tendon is no joke though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcceNovaFacioOmni Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 Good to hear you will be OK. It could always be worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 [quote name='Cure of Ars' date='Jul 22 2004, 07:37 PM'] My brain is a little disconnected from the pain pills but I'm ok. I had surgery yesterday. I got 8 weeks ahead of me on crutches and it will be 6 months before I’m running and jumping again. God’s will be done. Rupturing the Achilles tendon is no joke though. [/quote] i guess that means you'll have plenty of down-time to devote to the Crusade, huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cure of Ars Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 To say the least. Do we need more forums? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 [quote name='Cure of Ars' date='Jul 23 2004, 01:08 PM'] To say the least. Do we need more forums? [/quote] you mean places for us to defend the faith? sure, couldn't hurt. the more we have to choose from the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 Trent has an entire section devoted to this topicI'lll try to find you a link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theoketos Posted July 24, 2004 Share Posted July 24, 2004 [quote]Trent has an entire section devoted to this topicI'lll try to find you a link. [/quote] Here it is. [url="http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ195.HTM"]http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ195.HTM[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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