Pope John Paul Ii Is A Universalist

[Chucho]

First, I’d like to say, Jeff, very well done in my opinion. What you said I knew needed to be addressed and I couldn’t have come close to saying it as well as you did.

Budge, I’ll try to reasonably summarize your position so that we may all understand your side of the argument. If there is anything that I say to summarize what you believe that you think is inaccurate or you think that something needs to be added, then please do so constructively.

You begin your argument by saying that the Pope is a universalist. To prove your point, you bring in many references to the Pope as well as other people of a different religion calling for peace. These specific references are:

[quote]the second Humanist Manifesto which said that the only way peace could come to the world was by all religions coming together for peace and by mankind giving up divisions

The Pope teaches that all the time too[/quote]

[quote]In today's dangerous world, he continued, there is an "urgent need" for the world's great religions to come together, in light of their "common desire that all men be purified of the hatred and evil that always threaten peace[/quote]

[quote]And that isnt even touching the ideas expressed At Assisi, that all religions are to come together for peace, and the sponsership of false religions praying to their false Gods.[/quote]

[quote]She too called for a "new world order" just like the Pope and (see article above about Pope) that "the great religions of the world should come together for peace."
When the Pope says things like this,he is at heart a Universalist with a Christian veneer.
In fact the Pope makes this clear in his encyclical “Guadium et Spes”

QUOTE
Religious differences reveal themselves as pertaining to another order…It is possible that men not be conscious of their radical unity of religion and of their insertion in the very same . But despite such divisions, they are included in the single and grand design of God in Jesus Christ, who united Himself in a certain way with every man even if he is not conscious of it[/b][/quote]

[b]Edit*:[/b] So is what you're saying is that because the Pope calls for peace in the world, he is then a universalist?

So here in the last quote you jump from an obvious need for peace among humans that the Pope calls for (which has nothing to do with a new world order) and is recognized by all logical thinking persons who pick up a newspaper, to how Catholicism truthfully declares that Jesus Christ is the Truth that all men seek directly by His uniting Himself with us. Read this last one agian carefully. I can see how these points of your argument can be assumed to be connected since only in Christ can anyone have true peace. But this is not even close to what you’re arguing so the connection seems to be more like some sort of incomplete propaganda. You also say that the Pope seeks a new world order because he seeks peace. What kind of new world order are you referring to? You seem to be saying that when the Pope is calling for peace, he simultaneously seeks a new world government. How are the two related or did I misunderstand your position? You brought archetypes into the discussion in reference to interfaith dialogues on peace. How does an archetype have anything to do with making peace?

You say that theosophy says, “Unity of all religions, mankind building archeitect of new world.”
This unity is a notion of combing, correct?

[quote]The collective Unconsciencee IS NOT A CHRISTIAN Belief nor is it BIBLICAL.
[...]
The Collective unconscience is a New Age term which means that all humans have the same spiritual "knowledge" though they may not know it on the surface.[/quote]

You have quoted from “Guadium et Spes,” “But despite such divisions, they are included in the single and grand design of God in Jesus Christ, who united Himself in a certain way with every man even if he is not conscious of it.” This is utterly Christian! By the Death and Resurrection of Christ we are united to Him who took ALL of our sins, Christian and non-Christian alike throughout time. Think about this, how could there be Truth in the world even before Christ if this were not true? This is not a New Age premise. I agree that the New Age movement is linked to Theosophy but you have failed to connect theosophy with Catholicism. You can’t bring in the human need for peace that concerns all people of all religions and say that the Pope is a Universalist. There just isn’t any consistency with that argument.

[quote]There is no drawing to Christ unless a person is witnessed to or knows of Him.[/quote]

You believe that Jesus is the Truth, correct? If what you have stated were even remotely true, then what was Aristotle doing at around 400 BC? Because on all accounts, he was searching for Truth.

[quote]The Catholic Church at every turn advances the cause of world government via the UN, I could post 20 articles from Vatican newsources where they call for the UN to do a new "constitutional engineering of mankind" to be a new moral authority for all nations and more[/quote]

Sure, I’d like to see the context of this.

[quote][quote]So do you find this combining in the Church as an authoritative practice? If not, I recommend to you to not use such references to UU and the Holy Catholic Church.[/quote]

[b]Actions count more then Words.[/b] All I know is that the inculturation movement even in things Ive researched has out and out combined Hinduism and Catholicism in India and bloodletting and animal sacrifice--African native religions mixing with Catholicism in Africa.[/quote]

"[b]Actions count more then Words.[/b]"
Well, if Actions count more then Words then let’s see your actions and let’s have that research. Then we’ll talk about Salvation.


[quote]The Bible refers to even Children of the devil. Not everyone is God's.[/quote]

And for my first evidence, I present the “conquering” Europeans in the New World from 1492 until now who were and are supposed to be Christian.

[quote]The Pope sponsered false prayer at that meeting. Even with some natives with their bottle for libations is pictured on the Vatican website. I can get link if you need it.[/quote]

That would be great.

[quote]How is praying to demons, praying to God? Im serious please answer that. You abuse the word Logos thinking every spirit and false religion leads to God. The only one beyond CHristianity that gets it part- right is Judiasm. The rest are MYSTERY BABYLON. They are praying to Satan. How blunt do I have to be?[/quote]

I abuse the word Logos in thinking that every spirit and false religion leads to God? How so? I said that Logos is Christ. God spoke a Word and it happened. It is still here in the same manner, and it is in Christ that we all have our being. Where did I ever confuse Christ with “every spirit and false religion?” Please, don’t confuse the teachings of Scripture and claim that I preach a “cosmic Jesus.” That is absurd and uncalled for. If a New Ager takes Truth and twists It for his or her own purposes in order to make a cosmic Jesus, that doesn’t mean that what they started out with was a cosmic Jesus. Neither the Pope nor I preach New Age or Manichæism. Neither of these are Christian, even if they pick and choose what they want from Christian Truth. As for “How is praying to demons, praying to God?” Would you say that a good hearted Muslim who is sincere in love and charity and the seeking of Truth is praying to a demon? He or she is most certainly praying to God the Most High in the best way they know how to.


[quote]QUOTE
Home > Press releases
  09-07-04 // 19:06h

GIULIO CIPOLLONE: “NO RELIGION IS BETTER THAN ANOTHER, IT IS JUST AN INDIVIDUAL FEELING”
This afternoon the session called “The Faith beyond religions” took place, led by the expert, Giulio Cipollone




The professor at the Universidad Pontificia Gregoriana de Roma, Giulio Cipollone, explained “faith is the bond of the human heart with a project by God about the Universe”.  Cipollone explained that faith is “the loyalty towards a belief, and today we have seen that this belief has been used to justify the religious confrontation that does not help justice in the eyes of faith”.
Cipollone said that “the faith itself links us to a particular culture and we must respect its differences from our own”.  In this way, we could say that a religion is a different reality from faith since “faith is of human making and only depends on our reaching agreement and working together for a more united world”.  The Italian professor added that “our faith helps us to be self-critical since no religion is better than another, it is merely an individual feeling”.  History has shown us there is no religion in the world that does not have to ask pardon of another.

Cipollone suggests “looking from outside to find the coherence in our own religious belief”.  To do this it is necessary to tend towards generosity, be open-minded towards other religions, sine only in this way will we be truly fair in the eyes of society and the designs of God.  “Intolerance is no good to anyone, it doesn’t help to construct justice” Cipollone added.

The professor concluded by saying that “faith is a universal gift, it is the heritage of all, and so it is necessary to recover the feeling of faith beyond adherence to a certain religion.”[/quote]

I don’t know who Giulio Cipollone is but I do know he is not a representative of the Church. You have made blatant claims that the Pope is a universalist because he seeks peace in the hearts of men. Mr. Cipollone says that “Intolerance is no good to anyone, it doesn’t help to construct justice.” So what he says is that we need to live peaceful lives in peaceful dialogue with those of other religions. This is truely a Christian expression of charity. however, he says that no religion is better than any other. This I whole heartedly disagree with. And speaking of interfaith dialogue from the links you provided on cprw.org:

[quote]July 10
The Lord of the Rings: religious background[/quote]

Whoa! They even talked about The Lord of the Rings at that event!

Edited July 25, 2004 by Chucho

[Chucho]

Also you speak of pantheism several times:

[quote]Through this idea of a supposed unconscious relationship with Jesus Christ, The Pope promotes basically a panethistic Christ through all religions[/quote]

[quote]There is no such thing as a collective unconscience-=-pantheistic too--to the Christian.[/quote]

I fail to see how the collective unconscious is pantheistic. The collective unconscious is not to allow an equallity of truth throughout religions in some "universal everything leads to God" way. It simply recognizes that elements of truth are found in other religions. This is not pantheistic. The collective unconscious does not say that archetypes are gods. In history, people recognized the archetypes and equated them to God, and this is very understandable even if this equation was inaccurate. This does not detract from the fact that the fullness of Truth is Christ Who is God.

Main Entry: pan•the•ism
Pronunciation: 'pan(t)-thE-"i-z&m
Function: noun
Etymology: French panthéisme, from panthéiste pantheist, from English pantheist, from pan- + Greek theos god
1 : a doctrine that equates God with the forces and laws of the universe
2 : the worship of all gods of different creeds, cults, or peoples indifferently; also : toleration of worship of all gods (as at certain periods of the Roman empire)


[quote]Fatima but there they did HINDU ceremonies right in a church[/quote]

What ceremonies are you talking about exactly?

[Theoketos]

Though the Pope is not a Unitarian Universalist, even if he was this does not mean that the Church Proper teaches those things. Also as far as that sad event at Fatima, it may not have been right, but does that mean that the whole Church is wrong, certainly not. What it does mean is that we have much reporation to do.

[God Conquers]

How could promoting interreligious dialogue be bad budge?

I guess trying to steer people towards the Truth and towards Christ through dialogue, love and education is being a Universalist now.

[ironmonk]

The Pope is doing what the Apostle Paul did.


[b]1 Corinthians 9:19 [/b]
Although I am free in regard to all, I have made myself a slave to all so as to win over as many as possible.
[b]20 [/b]To the Jews I became like a Jew to win over Jews; to those under the law I became like one under the law--though I myself am not under the law--to win over those under the law.
[b]21 [/b]To those outside the law I became like one outside the law--though I am not outside God's law but within the law of Christ--to win over those outside the law.
[b]22 [/b]To the weak I became weak, to win over the weak. I have become all things to all, to save at least some.
[b]23 [/b]All this I do for the sake of the gospel, so that I too may have a share in it.


The Pope IS NOT a universalist. The Pope is a great example of the way Catholics should handle most things.

Don't listen to what the anti-popes have to say, actually see for yourself the writings and documents the man puts out. He's been spreading the Gospel to those who do not have it. With understanding and respect to those people.


Please read: Acts 20:29-30


God Bless,
ironmonk

Edited July 26, 2004 by ironmonk

[Budge]

Paul actually then told those people about Jesus. I witness to my atheist best friend that way.

I want you guys to go dig through interfaith Catholic events and find one instance of me where Jesus Christ is preached the pagans. Not just dialogue or lets look at Buddha but an instance where The Pope or some other high church official says...Let me tell you about Jesus. Ive read the Assisi documents its more about peace and nothing about Jesus.

Look at what is happening in mainstream Catholic America. The Catholics who are considered the good Catholics are the ones letting Buddhists chant in the Basilica, the Bad ones are the ones defending the FIrst Commandment. Of course I agree with those who protested. Ive lived near this town and its known as a conservative area.

[url="http://p201.ezboard.com/fcatholicreformationfrm18.showMessage?topicID=252.topic"]http://p201.ezboard.com/fcatholicreformati...picID=252.topic[/url]

[Guest JeffCR07]

Thats it? You're not even going to respond to even [i]one[/i] of the myriad refutations of your posts? What is more, I was going to just respond to the "facts" that you have stated, but I realisd that such a refutation has already been made over and over again. Please, try to respond to some of the counter-arguments.

- Your Brother In Christ, Jeff

[Budge]

Im not done yet, Just getting started:)
[quote]
You have quoted from “Guadium et Spes,” “But despite such divisions, they are included in the single and grand design of God in Jesus Christ, who united Himself in a certain way with every man even if he is not conscious of it.” [b]This is utterly Christian! By the Death and Resurrection of Christ we are united to Him who took ALL of our sins, Christian and non-Christian alike throughout time. [/b]Think about this, how could there be Truth in the world even before Christ if this were not true? This is not a New Age premise. I agree that the New Age movement is linked to Theosophy but you have failed to connect theosophy with Catholicism. You can’t bring in the human need for peace that concerns all people of all religions and say that the Pope is a Universalist. There just isn’t any consistency with that argument.[/quote]

Remember in the Bible it says "By Peace He shall destroy Many" Daniel 8:25

I am not impressed with the use of words, like peace and love. I consider them empty words because those in bondage to false religions will never know peace nor can they bring true peace. Only Jesus can.

As for Jesus being united to non-Christians....totally nonBiblical. Those in bondage to Allah, Vishnu, Krishna, Buddha, are NOT united to Jesus Christ. Jesus is the only way to heaven. People do not pick up on the gospel by this weird idea of OSMOSIS. This is why Jesus commanded for Christians to preach the gospel. Romans 10 says this...

That faith comes from HEARING THE GOSPEL.

People who are submitted to false Gods are not in righteousness. You all seem to believe they are. You seem to believe that people can be in righteousness and know God, through false religions. How can that be? It is simply not true.


[quote]Rom 10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 


Rom 10:3 [u][b]For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.  [/b][/u]

Rom 10:4 For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness [b][u]to every one that believeth.  [/u][/b]

Rom 10:5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. 


Rom 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down [from above] 


Rom 10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) 


Rom 10:8 [b]But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, [even] in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;[/b] 

(why does the Catholic Church more and more go against open preaching of the WOrd. How many Catholic street preachers are there or people who go door to door?)


Rom 10:9 [b]That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.  [/b]

(Those in false religions dont do that)

Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 


Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 


Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all [b]that call upon him[/b]. 


Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 


Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 

Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 


Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 


Rom 10:17 So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. [/quote]


[quote]

QUOTE 
There is no drawing to Christ unless a person is witnessed to or knows of Him.



You believe that Jesus is the Truth, correct? If what you have stated were even remotely true, then what was Aristotle doing at around 400 BC? Because on all accounts, he was searching for Truth. [/quote]

I go by what the BIble tells me. See above.

And who cares about Aristole. See thats part of the problem the Catholic Church looks to

[quote]Sure, I’d like to see the context of this.[/quote]

Theres an old post where I talk about this. Ill try and bump it up for you.

"[quote]
And for my first evidence, I present the “conquering” Europeans in the New World from 1492 until now who were and are supposed to be Christian.[/quote]

Are you going to give me the liberal line about how evil Columbus and friends were?

Surely some were bad men but others were not. The Pilgrims were mostly Godly people seeking religious freedom.
[quote]
QUOTE 
The Pope sponsered false prayer at that meeting. Even with some natives with their bottle for libations is pictured on the Vatican website. I can get link if you need it.



That would be great.[/quote]

OK

Bottle of booze to appease the demons and all, direct Vatican link....

[url="http://www.vatican.va/news_services/liturgy/documents/travels/assisi6.html"]http://www.vatican.va/news_services/liturg...ls/assisi6.html[/url]


[quote]I abuse the word Logos in thinking that every spirit and false religion leads to God? How so[/quote]?

[u][b]Do you seriously believe that all false religions are of God? And there are none authored by Satan?[/b][/u]

Satans lies in the garden are common threads to Hindusim, Buddhism, endless cults and others...

Eat of the KNOWLEDGE...

"ye shall be Gods"

Its all there in the false religions.


[quote]Would you say that a good hearted Muslim who is sincere in love and charity and the seeking of Truth is praying to a demon? He or she is most certainly praying to God the Most High in the best way they know how to.[/quote]

This is where you are beyond wrong.

They are praying a demon. The same demon, that pushed Mohammed towards writing a book of lies, the Koran that DIRECTLY denies Jesus Christ. Scripture says that is AntiChrist, demon to deny Jesus.



[quote]Whoa! They even talked about The Lord of the Rings at that event! [/quote]

Another pagan infused thing but thats for another thread.


[quote]I fail to see how the collective unconscious is pantheistic. The collective unconscious is not to allow an equallity of truth throughout religions in some "universal everything leads to God" way. It simply recognizes that elements of truth are found in other religions. [/quote]


There is no truth in false religions. A little leaven ruins the lump.
[quote]



This is not pantheistic. The collective unconscious does not say that archetypes are gods. In history, people recognized the archetypes and equated them to God, and this is very understandable even if this equation was inaccurate. This does not detract from the fact that the fullness of Truth is Christ Who is God. [/quote]

Satan is the author of most of the worlds false religions. There is no such thing as fullness of truth. Is that like being fully pregnant? There is no half way points with truth for God.

[quote]Though the Pope is not a Unitarian Universalist, even if he was this does not mean that the Church Proper teaches those things. Also as far as that sad event at Fatima, it may not have been right, but does that mean that the whole Church is wrong, certainly not. What it does mean is that we have much reporation to do. [/quote]

The Pope recently gave a foundation stone to the Fatima Shrine. He has to know what is going on there. I would think that this is some sign of approval.


[quote]How could promoting interreligious dialogue be bad budge?

I guess trying to steer people towards the Truth and towards Christ through dialogue, love and education is being a Universalist now. [/quote]

Find a time for me in any Catholic sponsered interfaith event with Cardinal or biship where JESUS IS preached and not just vague fuzzies like PEACE.

Edited July 28, 2004 by Budge

[Guest JeffCR07]

[quote]People who are submitted to false Gods are not in righteousness. You all seem to believe they are. You seem to believe that people can be in righteousness and know God, through false religions. How can that be? It is simply not true.[/quote]


Ultimately, the entirety of your argument comes down to the above quote.

The problem with this argument is that you are drastically misrepresenting what Catholics say. We do [i]not[/i] say that false religions bring one into communion or allow one to "know" God. We merely acknowledge that those people in invincible ignorance of the truth can be united to Christ by following the natural law, inscribed on the hearts of all men, as best they know how. This does not in any way shape or form mean that "we don't need to evangelize" nor does it downplay the gospel.

Also, I would like to make an analogy for the pope's efforts for peace, because you seem to care so little about it.

A heretic blatantly denies Christ and is about to kill someone. By your own analogy, if I were to say to him, "Please, by whatever God you respect or whatever promise you would keep, do not kill that man" would be condemned as being UU. It is not, it is a plea for peace, and nothing more.

You also did NOT address the responses, you merely quoted someone that typed something, and then went off into an editorial about nothing related.

Please respond in an intelligable manner

[Archbishop 10-K]

I'm really not seeing what Budge is trying to prove here, what with all the incoherent ranting and all. I do know that I get bashed for bringing up Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus (outside the Church there is no salvation) to any of my non-Catholic friends.

[Donna]

I am able to follow what Budge is saying.

[Chucho]

[quote]I am not impressed with the use of words, like peace and love. I consider them empty words because those in bondage to false religions will never know peace nor can they bring true peace. Only Jesus can.[/quote]

To you love is empty, however God is Love. This is our belief as Christians and therefore to bring the message of Christ is to bring Love and to bring Love is to bring Truth. Love and Truth are the same. Through Love we free people of other religions from their bondage. Please don’t tell me you disagree with this. It is necessary to have peace in order to bring Love. Why do you consider peace and love empty words?

[quote]As for Jesus being united to non-Christians....totally nonBiblical.[/quote]

Then let’s discuss grace. The grace of Christ is permeated throughout all of time because of His Death and Resurrection. How else was it that Saul in the book of Samuel was moved by the Spirit? Or how was Enoch lifted to heaven before the Death and Resurrection of Christ? How did the prophets prophesize? How were they able to speak in Truth if they were before the outpouring of Grace? It can only be because of grace and this grace is present in all time through the cross of Christ. These were not Christians in the OT and yet they were obviously united to Christ through His grace.

[quote]And who cares about Aristole[/quote]

You may not care, but the evidence is there that he was seeking truth. And if “There is no drawing to Christ unless a person is witnessed to or knows of Him” then Aristotle wouldn’t have been seeking for truth.

[quote]Are you going to give me the liberal line about how evil Columbus and friends were?

Surely some were bad men but others were not. The Pilgrims were mostly Godly people seeking religious freedom[/quote]

If you would like to discuss this in another thread then I wouldn’t mind a bit.

[quote]Bottle of booze to appease the demons and all, direct Vatican link[/quote]

[quote]Another thing the Pope writes is that the "Seeds of the Word "exsist in all religions, that too is a very very Universalist idea. He has even said this of Voodoo[/quote]

This picture of some people performing voodoo is not evidence that the Pope says that voodoo has the Seeds of the Word. You told me that, "The Pope sponsered false prayer at that meeting. Even with some natives with their bottle for libations is pictured on the Vatican website." So were is the sponsership?


[quote][quote]QUOTE
I abuse the word Logos in thinking that every spirit and false religion leads to God? How so[/quote]
?

Do you seriously believe that all false religions are of God? And there are none authored by Satan?[/quote]

I have never said that God founded false religions. God founded the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church and no other and therefore contain all Truth. This is why I am Catholic. All other religions are founded by men. Do not misrepresent me. When I speak of men and women trying to understand the archetype, in our ignorance did we fall and were not able to fully grasp the fullness of Truth. That is why we need Christ, and that is why we need to evangelize to those still in this ignorance.

[quote]There is no such thing as fullness of truth.[/quote]

That hurts when it comes from a Christian. If Christ is not the Fullness of Truth, then there is no point to evangelize, there is no point in Christian charity or love or peace. Man, that really hurts.

[quote]The Pope recently gave a foundation stone to the Fatima Shrine. He has to know what is going on there. I would think that this is some sign of approval.[/quote]

You must be referring here to the ceremonies performed by Hindis that you allegedly claim. However, you still haven’t answered my question, “What [Hindu] ceremonies are you talking about exactly?” that were performed in a church at Fatima. I don’t know what’s going on there and would like to be informed on this.

[quote]Find a time for me in any Catholic sponsered interfaith event with Cardinal or biship where JESUS IS preached and not just vague fuzzies like PEACE.[/quote]

Among intolerant, indifferent religions, peace is the first step. Nothing will be acomplished without peace.
From the Day of prayer for peace in the world at Assisi on 24 January 2002
[url="http://www.vatican.va/news_services/liturgy/documents/ns_lit_doc_20020124_assisi-celebrazione_en.html"]http://www.vatican.va/news_services/liturg...razione_en.html[/url]:
2. An evangelical witness for all

The message and the gift of peace which Jesus bequeathed to his disciples have become ever more necessary in this time. Christians know this. The whole message of the Old and New Testaments is interspersed with references to peace with God and with our brothers and sisters. As Paul writes: “He is our peace, who has made us both one, and has broken down the dividing wall of hostility... that he might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross... He came and preached peace... and through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father” (cf. Eph 2:14-18).

Here we can see it is our Christian duty to bring peace to the world. You constantly attack the Pope for trying to bring peace in the world and yet this is his duty as a Christian. Who better to bring peace to the world than Christians who know of the true source of peace so as to bring that Source to others who have not?

[popestpiusx]

[quote name='Chucho' date='Jul 29 2004, 06:35 PM']
This picture of some people performing voodoo is not evidence that the Pope says that voodoo has the Seeds of the Word. You told me that, "The Pope sponsered false prayer at that meeting. Even with some natives with their bottle for libations is pictured on the Vatican website." So were is the sponsership?



[/quote]
Where? These people were invited by the Pope into Catholic builings to pray to their "gods" for peace. Pagan worship services were conducted in buildings (or on ground) consecrated as Catholic buildings (convents, etc). These people violated the first commandment by worshiping false gods. Vodoo is a demonic religion. They were invited (by the Vatican) to pray to their gods (which are most vertainly demons) for peace (what irony??). How is that not Vatican sanctioning (or sponsorship) of the violation of the commandment? This is sacriledge.

[PedroX]

The Lord of the Rings is not pagan infused.

Oh no, my precious, they're onto us!

I told you to quit looking so pagan infused!

We can'ts helps it our precious....

peace....

[Chucho]

[quote name='popestpiusx' date='Jul 29 2004, 10:26 PM']Where?  These people were invited by the Pope into Catholic builings to pray to their "gods" for peace.  Pagan worship services were conducted in buildings (or on ground) consecrated as Catholic buildings (convents, etc).  These people violated the first commandment by worshiping false gods.  Vodoo is a demonic religion. They were invited (by the Vatican) to pray to their gods (which are most vertainly demons) for peace (what irony??).  How is that not Vatican sanctioning (or sponsorship) of the violation of the commandment?  This is sacriledge.[/quote]
Alright, I concede. I had to do a lot of thinking on this point and I suppose that I was so concentrated on matters of peace that I lost grasp of the elements in the purpose. I agree; after reading up on what happened and not just what was said at Assisi, this act of encouraging prayer from false religions is not in accord with Christian principles and should not have been done. Thank you for pointing this out to me.

While I believe that the Pope’s many attempts to bring social peace to those of different religions are noble Christian acts, I do not agree and do not support the manner in which it was meant to be accomplished at Assisi. With my whole heart, I apologize to those who have read that part of my post and thought I was blindly defending a wrong doing. This was not my intention. However, I do support and affirm the need for peace in our world among those of different religions since no one will accept the message if they don’t accept the messenger.