Pope John Paul Ii Is A Universalist

[Guest JeffCR07]

Cmom: everytime I re-read his [i]Chronicals[/i] I cannot help but tell myself that, despite all his wonderful work, it is the best. Easily readable, filled to the brim with symbolic meaning, and, perhaps the most important of all: It conveys messages that are so important in a way that even a young child can understand and love.

It may be difficult to put a complex message into writing that is also complex, but how much more difficult - and praiseworthy- is it to put a complex message into writing that is simple!

Apotheoun, that was solid, lol, thanks for saying what we were all thinking right up front!

- Your Brother In Christ, Jeff

[Sojourner]

[quote name='JeffCR07' date='Jul 21 2004, 03:41 PM'] I would also like to add that the final quote is not something that is exclusively held as truth by catholics either. Anyone who has read C.S. Lewis' [u]The Last Battle[/u] will immediately remember the dialogue between Aslan and one of the "enemy" soldiers. The soldier lived and fought for a foreign land, and served a foreign God, but, when he saw Aslan, recognised Him as God and two two conversed.

Most notably, one will recall that, when asked how He could forgive the soldier, Aslan replies something to the jist of "Every time that you kept a promise in the name of a false God, you did it, truly, in MY name, for nothing of theirs is good, as a kept promise is good, but rather, it is Mine. So too any time you did a good deed or held a true belief in the name of a false God, for truly, it was in My name that such things were done. In the same way, whenever a murder, theft, or any evil deed is done in my name, it is not truly my name in whom these actions are done, but rather that of a false God, for nothing of mine is evil."

I see a marked correlation between Lewis and the teachings of the Holy Father, and I see Truth in both. This is not a faith-compromising UU belief, but rather, a wonderful examination of the issue of invincible ignorance and its application.

- Your Brother In Christ, Jeff [/quote]
When I was a kid, I read the [i]Chronicles[/i] several times, and this part always stuck out to me, and always made a lot of sense to me. So when I read the Church's teachings on this topic, this scene immediately leaped to mind, so I never struggled with accepting this particular teaching. C.S. Lewis rocks.

[cmotherofpirl]

No other apologist could teach more theology with less words than the great one -C.S.Lewis.

[Colleen]

[quote name='JeffCR07' date='Jul 21 2004, 05:05 PM'] Cmom: everytime I re-read his [i]Chronicals[/i] I cannot help but tell myself that, despite all his wonderful work, it is the best. Easily readable, filled to the brim with symbolic meaning, and, perhaps the most important of all: It conveys messages that are so important in a way that even a young child can understand and love.

It may be difficult to put a complex message into writing that is also complex, but how much more difficult - and praiseworthy- is it to put a complex message into writing that is simple! [/quote]
You are absolutely right.

I love C.S. Lewis. I've read the Chronicles of Narnia countless times, but every time I re-read them, my understanding of certain aspects of the Faith deepens.

[Sinner]

I'm not good at arguing specific apologetics........ but gee whiz it is easy to see when someone has mulled multiple documents and cut small pieces out to make their own point with no consideration for the intent of the individual documents as a whole. Gimme a break.

[Cure of Ars]

[quote]
[color=blue]“The Spirits prescence and activity, “ as I wrote in the encyclical Letter, Redemptoris Missio, “affect not only individuals but also society and history, peoples and cultures and religions"[/color]

Right here the Pope says the Holy Spirit is connected to false religions.
[/quote]

I suggest you read the story of Jonah. In that story it shows that God cares for and was involved with people of false religions. God asked Jonah to give a message of repentance to Nineveh who were a part of a false religion.

[quote][color=green]Then the LORD said, "You are concerned over the plant which cost you no labor and which you did not raise; it came up in one night and in one night it perished.

And should I not be concerned over Nineveh, the great city, in which there are more than a hundred and twenty thousand persons who cannot distinguish their right hand from their left, not to mention the many cattle?" [/color](Jonah 4:11)[/quote]

Edited July 22, 2004 by Cure of Ars

[popestpiusx]

Budge, you did a very poor job of making your case. Your quotes are too short. There is no context nor have you provided specific references or footnotes. You have way to much of your own rambling in between these short quotes. All in all, I walked away feeling dumber after reading all of this. If you want to prove your point (if such a thing is provable??) then you need to dig in a lot more and examine all these things, as well as others, in context and according to proper interpretation. You migt be amazed that what you find is not always what you are predisposed to believe.

[popestpiusx]

And another thing:

Even if he is a universalist it would in no way shape or form infringe upon the dignity of his office. He would still be the Successor to St. Peter, the Vicar of Christ, and would bear the fullness of Apostolic Authority. He would be prevented, by the Holy Ghost, from formally teaching his heretical beliefs. Furthermore, even if I despised the man, if he was a raging heretic and had 700 concubines, and had destroyed the Church in the public eye, he would still be the Vicar of Christ and would still formally teach pure doctrine and I would rush to his defense or respond to his call without hesitation. This may seem strange and contradictory to you, budge (and others perhaps) but his office demands it.

I would also like to say, for those who may be wondering, that what I have said here does not contradict the positions I have taken on certain issues, which I will not go into right now because it would start a tangent that would distract from the larger issue at hand: a defense of the primacy of Peter (and every single one of his successors) to those who would slander that office with accusations which are not merely unsubstantiated, but also irrelevant.

God Bless You All!!

[Guest JeffCR07]

Some would go even further (myself included) and argue that not only can a Pope not formally teach heresy, but that the Spirit will guard the Holy Father from personal heresy as well.

[popestpiusx]

[quote name='JeffCR07' date='Jul 22 2004, 10:36 PM'] Some would go even further (myself included) and argue that not only can a Pope not formally teach heresy, but that the Spirit will guard the Holy Father from personal heresy as well. [/quote]
Historically this would not seem to hold much water. But I have no intention of getting into that here.

[Guest JeffCR07]

I would welcome the debate in another thread

[Chucho]

Budge,

You seem very sincere in your post so I’ll be sincere as well.

To start out, I want to say that to me in my observation of your post, your time spent as a UU has changed your personal views to such an extent that you still see world views and philosophies through the eyes of a UU. I may be wrong about this but, I may be right or at least near the mark.

[quote]In today's dangerous world, he continued, there is an "urgent need" for the world's great religions to come together, in light of their "common desire that all men be purified of the hatred and evil that always threaten peace."[/quote]

This has nothing to do with a new world order as later in your post will claim: [quote]“She too called for a "new world order" just like the Pope and … that "the great religions of the world should come together for peace”[/quote]Would you rather the Pope say that only Catholics desire to be purified of hatred and evil and have peace in the world or did you mean something else?

[quote]one main activity of UU services, is the combining of the prayers of many religions from Hindu invocations to what is called the Great Invocation. Our services would include Hindu chants, Buddhist readings and poetry. God was taught as being present in all the worlds great religions and even the lesser ones even non-theistic Uus aspired to a notion of people searching for the same great truths in this array of false religions or an “archetype” of God[/quote]

And also:

[quote]QUOTE
Religious differences reveal themselves as pertaining to another order…It is possible that men not be conscious of their radical unity of religion and of their insertion in the very same . But despite such divisions, they are included in the single and grand design of God in Jesus Christ, who united Himself in a certain way with every man even if he is not conscious of it[/b][/quote]

And also:

[quote]QUOTE
It will be in the sincere practice of what is good in their own religious traditions and by following the dictates of their own conscience that members of other religions respond positively to God’s invitation and receive salvation in Jesus Christ even while they do not recognize or acknowledge him as their Saviour.[/quote]

Ahh yes, the archetype and the collective unconscious. Is it any wonder that Man has a burning desire for Truth? Would you prevent that relationship between God and man because he hasn’t come to fully know the God-man Jesus Christ who is the fulfillment of all archetypes and most certainly so since He is God and the Word that keeps us in existence? If Christ is the Logos in which we have our being and Christ is the Truth, would it not make sense that in every human, individually and collectively, we have a drawing to Him whether we consciously know Him or not?

There is no new world order to be found in the Catholic Church. You bring up the point that UUs “combin[e]of the prayers of many religions from Hindu invocations to what is called the Great Invocation. Our services would include Hindu chants, Buddhist readings and poetry.”

So do you find this combining in the Church as an authoritative practice? If not, I recommend to you to not use such references to UU and the Holy Catholic Church.

[quote]The prevailing message of Theosphy…is that of “unity”-- Unity of thought, beliefs and of the world. Religions are taught as being unified in core beliefs “All religions lead to god” and a panthestic notion of god promoted.[/quote]

There is a problem with this line of reasoning when you claim that the Church teaches the same thing. While the UU would combine all that they see that is good in the world religions, Catholic Unity is a unity containing the Truth of Jesus, not of Brahma or Allah since it is incomplete. Any truth found in Hinduism or any other religion is found in the Truth of Jesus Christ (and of course much more Truth) because He is the Truth and the Fulfillment of all archetype.

[quote]Through this idea of a supposed unconscious relationship with Jesus Christ, The Pope promotes basically a panethistic Christ through all religions[/quote]

“In the beginning was the Word (Logos), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. All things came to be through him, and without him nothing came to be.”
John 1: 1-2

“God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light”
Gen. 1: 3

So you see, God spoke a Logos and it happened. Not only did it happen, but it is still here, held by the Power of God, therefore we are living in the Presence of Christ, we are living in the Presence of God. This is not pantheistic; this is the omnipresent reality of God. This is something you must surely believe in as a Baptist, at least I hope so. So you try to debunk the unconscious relationship with Christ that all humans possess, and in the process you deny the obvious collective unconscious that is used to draw us to that ultimate fulfillment of archetype found in Christ. This unconscious relationship is seen and understood in the very being we have in Christ.

[quote]Another thing the Pope writes is that the "Seeds of the Word "exsist in all religions, that too is a very very Universalist idea. He has even said this of Voodoo[/quote]

Just a little evidence please.

[quote]And that isnt even touching the ideas expressed At Assisi, that all religions are to come together for peace, and the sponsership of false religions praying to their false Gods.[/quote]

As you have done earlier in you post, you relate man’s universal need for Truth and peace between Catholicism and the UU. And now you say that because of this, false religions are therefore sponsored by the Pope. Come on dude, get serious.

[quote]But here too, the Pope even admits that he believes all "Authentic" prayer (even that of false religions) goes to god. ...At one point the Pope goes as far to label prayers to false Gods as valid and called by the Holy Spirit

QUOTE
“All authentic prayer is called forth by the Spirit, The “Seeds of the Truth” present and active in the various religion traditions are a reflection of the unique Word of God, who “enlightens every man coming into the world[/font] and who became flesh in Christ Jesus. They are together an effect of the spirit of truth operation outside the visible confines of the Mystical Body” and which “blows where it wills”.[/quote]

This “prayer [that] is called forth by the Spirit” that has “The “Seeds of the Truth” present and active in the various religion traditions are a reflection of the unique Word of God” certainly makes sense since we all have our being in the Logos who is the Truth. Or would you disagree?

Cardinal Arinze’s book…"The Solidarity of the World’s Religions" shows that the one world religion theme is promoted Vatican Wide. Arinze considered one of the leading candidates for the next Pope writes “With reference to other religions, the Church sees a great difference between them and herself,” Cardinal Arinze said. “The other religions are ex-pressions of the human soul seeking God, with some beautiful insights” Arinze goes on to point out errors in other religions but also speaks of their “treasures” Rather then following the Bible which speaks of children of darkness and those being led into the ditch by the blind (false religions),

““The other religions are ex-pressions of the human soul seeking God.” "Wow, that is beautiful.
About “those being led into the ditch by the blind (false religions)” bit, this is about the Pharisees' hypocrisy, not world religions. But you knew that.

[quote]When it comes right down to it, John Paul II and these other leaders are universalists who believe as long as someone is sincere and good they can be saved and that non-Christians can get to heaven without saving faith in Christ.The New World religion will be Interfaithism, that any religion as long as the participant is sincere are all valid pathways to God. (discovery of this book was one of the first things GOd showed me as He led me out of Catholic Church)[/quote]

I think the others here covered this, and a thousand responses of the same response can be found anywhere you look when talking about what the Church teaches on salvation outside the Church and this has absolutely nothing to do with “interfaithism.” But you should have known that if you really did your research on Catholic teaching.

[Budge]

Most of you seem to just want to deny what is happening before your eyes.

I cant beleive the creativity of excuses.

Please read 2 Corinthians 6:14-16

Christians are not to have anything to do with false religions.


To[quote] start out, I want to say that to me in my observation of your post, your time spent as a UU has changed your personal views to such an extent that you still see world views and philosophies through the eyes of a UU. I may be wrong about this but, I may be right or at least near the mark.[/quote]

No I am a born again under the blood Christian. I learned a lot in the UU of what Satans lies are and its sad to see the same thing in the Catholic Church.


Youre going to tell me this just making nice--with people of false religions...I know this board will erase all links about Fatima but there they did HINDU ceremonies right in a church. Look when one is UU you are educated on the New Age, Theosophy, Humanist movement and HInduism and Buddhism all at once. All false religions of the world have common threads. I hate to say it but you also learn the symbols. I have seen pictures of Catholic churchs with out right occultic symbols in them especially Taj Mahoney. If I still believed that people could be saved without Christ I would have stayed a UU. The Catholic Church more and more has gone towards Universalism.


[quote]Would you rather the Pope say that only Catholics desire to be purified of hatred and evil and have peace in the world or did you mean something else?[/quote]

The New Age teaches of this Great Purification. Come on look at human sin and evil, you think some Kumbuya events are going to end natural human nature or are you going to look to Christ?


[quote]Ahh yes, the archetype and the collective unconscious[/quote].

[u][b]The collective Unconsciencee IS NOT A CHRISTIAN Belief nor is it BIBLICAL.

The Collective unconscience is a New Age term which means that all humans have the same spiritual "knowledge" though they may not know it on the surface. You just named one of the major tenets of Theosophy. There is no such thing as a collective unconscience-=-pantheistic too--to the Christian[/b][/u].

[quote]Is it any wonder that Man has a burning desire for Truth? Would you prevent that relationship between God and man because he hasn’t come to fully know the God-man Jesus Christ who is the fulfillment of all archetypes and most certainly so since He is God and the Word that keeps us in existence? If Christ is the Logos in which we have our being and Christ is the Truth, would it not make sense that in every human, individually and collectively, we have a drawing to Him whether we consciously know Him or not?[/quote]

[u][b]When you say Jesus is the fulfillment of all archetypes you are preaching a false Jesus which is the New Age Cosmic Christ. Dashes of Jungian philosophies thrown in. Other religions have FALSE gods, they are not archetypes of truth. There is no drawing to Christ unless a person is witnessed to or knows of Him. There is no spacey oh the native in the middle of Brazilian jungle is going to figure out the exsistance of Christ. This is nonsense.
Why else did Jesus call for Christians to preach to ALL nations? [/b][/u]


[quote]There is no new world order to be found in the Catholic Church. You bring up the point that UUs “combin[e]of the prayers of many religions from Hindu invocations to what is called the Great Invocation. Our services would include Hindu chants, Buddhist readings and poetry.”[/quote]

The Catholic Church at every turn advances the cause of world government via the UN, I could post 20 articles from Vatican newsources where they call for the UN to do a new "constitutional engineering of mankind" to be a new moral authority for all nations and more. Ironic that given its the UN promoting abortion, gay rights and euthanasia.


[quote]So do you find this combining in the Church as an authoritative practice? If not, I recommend to you to not use such references to UU and the Holy Catholic Church.[/quote]

[b]Actions count more then Words[/b]. All I know is that the inculturation movement even in things Ive researched has out and out combined Hinduism and Catholicism in India and bloodletting and animal sacrifice--African native religions mixing with Catholicism in Africa.



[quote]There is a problem with this line of reasoning when you claim that the Church teaches the same thing. While the UU would combine all that they see that is good in the world religions, Catholic Unity is a unity containing the Truth of Jesus, not of Brahma or Allah since it is incomplete. Any truth found in Hinduism or any other religion is found in the Truth of Jesus Christ (and of course much more Truth) because He is the Truth and the Fulfillment of all archetype.[/quote]

There is no truth in Hinduism. Hinduism worships millions of gods, demons and false spirits, again if Jesus is truth in all religions, you are worshipping the so called Cosmic New Age Christ--not real Christ at all but AntiChrist teachings.

[quote]So you try to debunk the unconscious relationship with Christ that all humans possess, and in the process you deny the obvious collective unconscious that is used to draw us to that ultimate fulfillment of archetype found in Christ. This unconscious relationship is seen and understood in the very being we have in [/quote]


[u][b]I do debunk it. There is NO unconscious relationship with Christ. You either have the HOly Spirit indwelling as a CHrisitan or you do not and one has to be saved and turn ones life over to Christ to have the Holy Spirit indwelling[/b][/u]. This is what scripture says over and over. The Bible refers to even Children of the devil. Not everyone is God's.

[quote]Another thing the Pope writes is that the "Seeds of the Word "exsist in all religions, that too is a very very Universalist idea. He has even said this of Voodoo



Just a little evidence please.[/quote]
[quote]As you have done earlier in you post, you relate man’s universal need for Truth and peace between Catholicism and the UU. And now you say that because of this, false religions are therefore sponsored by the Pope. Come on dude, get serious.[/quote]


The Pope sponsered false prayer at that meeting. Even with some natives with their bottle for libations is pictured on the Vatican website. I can get link if you need it. More and more it looks like I didnt go that far when I went to UU from Catholicism, sadly I didnt know who Jesus really was, didnt know what being saved was about. [b]The Catholic Church nowadays is so busy looking for truth everywhere else but the Bible they may as well call themselves Universalists with a Christian veneer.[/b]

[quote]This “prayer [that] is called forth by the Spirit” that has “The “Seeds of the Truth” present and active in the various religion traditions are a reflection of the unique Word of God” certainly makes sense since we all have our being in the Logos who is the Truth. Or would you disagree?[/quote]

[u][b]How is praying to demons, praying to God?[/b][/u] Im serious please answer that. You abuse the word Logos thinking every spirit and false religion leads to God. The only one beyond CHristianity that gets it part- right is Judiasm. The rest are MYSTERY BABYLON. They are praying to Satan. How blunt do I have to be?

They dont know God. to say that prayers to false gods are going to god, is teaching same as universalists.

Edited July 24, 2004 by Budge

[Budge]

Please explain this:

[quote]Code: ZE04071108

Date: 2004-07-11

[b]Pope Lauded for Promoting Interreligious Dialogue[/b]


BARCELONA, Spain, JULY 11, 2004 (Zenit.org).- [font color=red size=5]John Paul II is the religious leader who has given the greatest boost to interreligious dialogue, say experts of the Parliament of the Religions of the World.[/font]
At the Forum 2004 being held here, one session was entitled [b]"Contributions of Pope John Paul II to the Interreligious Dialogue."[/b]

One participant in the session, Meter Huff, who heads religious studies at Centenary College of Louisiana, in the United States, said: "The Pope is the man of the millennium, as he has reinvented the papacy and reinvented himself."

A press statement issued by the forum's organization said: "The Pope was the first pontiff to visit a synagogue and a Lutheran church; he fomented for the first time in 1986 an interreligious meeting and has worked fervently for the rapprochement with Protestantism."

Ibrahim Ozdemir, professor of the history of philosophy at the University of Ankara, Turkey, said: "The Pope is today the voice of humanity's conscience and he will be remembered in the future at the same level as Mahatma Gandhi and the Dalai Lama."

email this article[/quote]

[url="http://www.cpwr.org/"]http://www.cpwr.org/[/url]

[quote]Pathways to Peace: The Wisdom of Listening, the Power of Commitment

The 2004 Parliament of the World's Religions opens soon! Join thousands of people of faith, spirit and goodwill in Barcelona, Spain next month... REGISTER TODAY!

Visit the 2004 Parliament Web Site.
Download May 2004 Parliament E-Newsletter
THE PAUL CARUS AWARD ANNOUNCEMENT

Bishop McLeod Baker Ochola II and the Acholi Religious Leaders Peace Initiative (ARLPI), a multi-faith peace group in Northern Uganda, win the Paul Carus Award for Outstanding Contributions to the Interreligious Movement.

Download the Press Release
Learn More about the Carus Award
 

The mission of the Council for a Parliament of the World's Religions is to cultivate harmony between the world's religious and spiritual communities and foster their engagement with the world and its other guiding institutions in order to achieve a peaceful, just, and sustainable world.[/quote]

[url="http://www.cpwr.org/2004Parliament/index.htm"]http://www.cpwr.org/2004Parliament/index.htm[/url]

[url="http://www.cpwr.org/2004Parliament/news/pressrelease.2004.07.07.htm"]http://www.cpwr.org/2004Parliament/news/pr....2004.07.07.htm[/url]

[url="http://www.cpwr.org/2004Parliament/dialogues.htm"]http://www.cpwr.org/2004Parliament/dialogues.htm[/url]

Universalists one and all

[url="http://media.barcelona2004.org/en/nota.html?id=1870"]http://media.barcelona2004.org/en/nota.html?id=1870[/url]

[quote] Home > Press releases
  09-07-04 // 19:06h

[b]GIULIO CIPOLLONE: “NO RELIGION IS BETTER THAN ANOTHER, IT IS JUST AN INDIVIDUAL FEELING”[/b]
This afternoon the session called “The Faith beyond religions” took place, led by the expert, Giulio Cipollone




[b]The professor at the Universidad Pontificia Gregoriana de Roma, Giulio Cipollone, explained “faith is the bond of the human heart with a project by God about the Universe”.  Cipollone explained that faith is “the loyalty towards a belief, and today we have seen that this belief has been used to justify the religious confrontation that does not help justice in the eyes of faith”.[/b]
Cipollone said that “the faith itself links us to a particular culture and we must respect its differences from our own”.  In this way, we could say that a religion is a different reality from faith since “faith is of human making and only depends on our reaching agreement and working together for a more united world”.  The Italian professor added that “our faith helps us to be self-critical since no religion is better than another, it is merely an individual feeling”.  History has shown us there is no religion in the world that does not have to ask pardon of another.

Cipollone suggests “looking from outside to find the coherence in our own religious belief”.  To do this it is necessary to tend towards generosity, be open-minded towards other religions, sine only in this way will we be truly fair in the eyes of society and the designs of God.  “Intolerance is no good to anyone, it doesn’t help to construct justice” Cipollone added.

The professor concluded by saying that “faith is a universal gift, it is the heritage of all, and so it is necessary to recover the feeling of faith beyond adherence to a certain religion.”[/quote]

[Guest JeffCR07]

Budge, it seems to me that you have forgone traditional debate styles in favor of blatant generalizations, prolonged editorials, and conclusions that are not based on fact. However, the few issues that you [i]do[/i] bring up, I will address.


[quote]When you say Jesus is the fulfillment of all archetypes you are preaching a false Jesus which is the New Age Cosmic Christ. Dashes of Jungian philosophies thrown in. Other religions have FALSE gods, they are not archetypes of truth. There is no drawing to Christ unless a person is witnessed to or knows of Him. There is no spacey oh the native in the middle of Brazilian jungle is going to figure out the exsistance of Christ. This is nonsense.
Why else did Jesus call for Christians to preach to ALL nations? [/quote]

There is no "New Age Christ" nor is their some kind of "catholic christ" there is one Jesus, who died on the cross and rose again, who is the savior of the world. Moreover, this generalization of yours contradicts scripture itself. You have yet to address the post in response to this point, which highlighted the concern of God for Ninevah, and the inherent tendency of ALL men, not just the Isrealites, who were God's chosen people, towards God.


Also, just to comment: you will probably use the issue of the buddha statue against Fatima, however, I would like to point out that it was unplanned, and was taken down as soon as people knew about it.

Now, for your only other real point:

[quote]Christians are not to have anything to do with false religions.[/quote]

1.) Christians are not to [i]participate in[/i] false religions. However, prayer is not the entirety of religion.

2.) everything that we have been discussion is focused not on "uniting Islam with Catholicism" but on "uniting Muslims with Catholics." This is not participating in their religion, but rather trying to bridge the gap that warmongers, fanatics, and senseless violence - by members of both parties, christians and non-christians - have created between us.

3.) Your fundamental presupposition is that only christians are connected to God, because non-christians are partakers of false religions, who God hates. This presupposition is false, refuted by scripture itself, for all people are created in the image of God, and so inherently tend towards him.

Just as one side note:

[quote]There is no spacey oh the native in the middle of Brazilian jungle is going to figure out the exsistance of Christ. This is nonsense.
Why else did Jesus call for Christians to preach to ALL nations?[/quote]

This is not a very intelligent argument, because its logical conclusion is that we are saved by our own knowledge. That is - only someone who intellectually knows Christ can be united to him.

This doesnt fly at all, because it logically precludes from salvation: All who have never heard the scripture, as well as, babies, children beneath the age of reason, and those born with serious mental handicaps.

Moreover, this TOO defies scripture, for we are told that we cannot see God through anything but the eyes of faith.

So faith is something deeper than our intellect. It is the natural yearning of our soul towards God, which all people have.

This does not preclude or lessen the necessity of evangelisation either. We are all called to live in imitation of Christ as best we can, and that is why the Church is so important, it allows us to follow that calling not merely in an amalgomous "yearning of the soul" way, but in an ordered way, which unifies the mind, body and soul of a person in their devotion to Christ.

I pray that Christ will soften your heart and that you will be open to the fullness of His Word, which is the Church.

Until that day, I pray for a logical, philosophical response.

- Your Brother In Christ, Jeff