Required Summer Reading

[MichaelFilo]

After deeply considering it, and I think I'll spend some time praying on it as well, I am fairly sure I want to get this book removed from the required summer reading booklist. It is filled with lies, and all in all is a bashing of Christianity (especially Catholicism). I came here because who better to know how I can refute this in front of an eductated person and show how much rubbish it is. The book by the way is [u]A World Only Lit By Fire: The medieval mind and the Renaissance[/u].

Here are the claims, the so far I've read,

The Catholic Church had trouble teaching pagans, but didn't have trouble converting them through threats of capital punishment otherwise.

Those who followed Arius of Alexendria, who rejected the Nicene Creed, after his death, rioted, and were slaughtered ( the wording makes it sound like the defenders of the faith where in the wrong, I'm not even sure if it happend like that)

The apostles Paul and John had been "profoundly influenced by Neoplatonism." After that is a quote that says Pope Gregory I in the sixith century named 7 cardinal virtues, 3 that were Christian - faith, hope, and charity - and 4 that were adopted from plato and Pythagoras - Wisdom, justice, courage, and temparance.

The most absusrd so far though has been his claim that St. Augustine said that lust polluted every child in the very act of conception- sexual inercourse was a "mass of perdition". He goes on to say, However although most people were thereby damned in the womb, some could be saved by the blessed of intervention of the Virgin Mary, who possessed that power because she conceived Christ sinlessly. He then pulls out a quote of St.Augustine (thedude said this was from faked works, and didn't belong to St. Augustine ), "Through a woman we were sent to destruction; through a woman salvation was restored to us. "

He sais that St. Augustine taught that sex was evil, and salvation was possible only thorugh the intercession of the Madonna.


While this could all easily be debunked on a religious level, at least the last 2, I don't know how I'd hold up in a secular arena where history would play a bigger role then the actual religious part. I am going to push to get this book removed, no one should have to be so clearly lied to. All I need is some proof that some of this stuff is forged, or is totally absured, and under the idea of pushing religious agenda through position I can possibly have the book removed. Thanks in advance!

God bless,

Michael Filo

[MorphRC]

Start at www.catholic.com

Im sure that 'The Catholic Church had trouble teaching pagans, but didn't have trouble converting them through threats of capital punishment otherwise.' would be refering to the Inquisition. Here are some links:

[url="http://www.sspx.org/against_the_sound_bites/defense_of_the_inquisition.htm"]http://www.sspx.org/against_the_sound_bite...inquisition.htm[/url]
[url="http://www.catholic.net/Catholic Church/Periodicals/Dossier/1112-96/article4.html"]http://www.catholic.net/Catholic Church/Periodicals/Do...6/article4.html[/url]

Slavery and the Church: This might help to: PRO-CATHOLIC..

[url="http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2003/128/53.0.html"]http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2003/128/53.0.html[/url]

[MichaelFilo]

Thank you, now if someone can give me some references to St.Augustine and those faked quotes? I don't think those are his just by the fact that he insists that Mary saves.

God bless,

Michael Filo

[MorphRC]

See what New Advents got

[MorphRC]

btw that was a mental note to myself..but on here..which doesnt really make it mental.. hmm

[MorphRC]

[url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02091a.htm"]Teaching of St. Augustine of Hippo[/url]

St. Augustine of Hippo (354-430) is "a philosophical and theological genius of the first order, dominating, like a pyramid, antiquity and the succeeding ages. Compared with the great philosophers of past centuries and modern times, he is the equal of them all; among theologians he is undeniably the first, and such has been his influence that none of the Fathers, Scholastics, or Reformers has surpassed it." (Philip Schaff, History of the Christian Church) Elsewhere, we have discussed his life and his writings; here, we shall treat of his teaching and influence in three sections:

I. His Function as a Doctor of the Church
II. His System of Grace
III. Augustinism in History

[b]That Might help[/b]

[MorphRC]

[url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02089a.htm"]Works of St. Augustine of Hippo[/url]

St. Augustine of Hippo (354-430) was one of the most prolific geniuses that humanity has ever known, and is admired not only for the number of his works, but also for the variety of subjects, which traverse the whole realm of thought. The form in which he casts his work exercises a very powerful attraction on the reader. Bardenhewer praises his extraordinary suppleness of expression and his marvellous gift of describing interior things, of painting the various states of the soul and the facts of the spiritual world. His latinity bears the stamp of his age. In general, his style is noble and chaste; but, says the same author, "in his sermons and other popular writings he purposely drops to the language of the people." A detailed analysis is impossible here. We shall merely indicate his principal writings and the date (often approximate) of their composition.


[b]This looks more promising.[/b]

[MichaelFilo]

I checked them both, unless I missed something in it, there is no explicit or even indirect mention of the quotes, or any forgeries. I'd also like to bring up these point, which I skipped over accidently ( it was late ).

That Church holiday's took the place of pagan holidays ( in the context, the Church holidays were derived from those other days so the Church could stop paganism. ) Here is the list.
Pentecost - Floralia
All Souls' Day - frestive of the dead ( not a proper name )
Feast of the Nativity - Roman Lupercalia and the feast of the purification of Isis.
Christmas - Saturnalia
Easter - resurrection of Attis.

The saints were all converted forms of Roman gods. The holy sanctuaries were just old pagan sanctuaries. Churches were built upon pagan temples ( I don't see the problem with this, but, if there is anything against this, it would be appreciated.

Clement of Alexandria declared it was sacrilege to adulate that which is created, rather than the creator. The author however goes on to say that the people wanted statues and pcitures of Mary, of Jesus on the Cross. Statues of Horus, the Egyptian sky god, and Isis, were rechristened Jesus and Mary.


Anyways, this book is very staunchly anti-Christian, but I still have to disprove this stuff on a secular level so I can get it removed.

Thanks in advance

God Bless,

Michael Filo

Edited July 17, 2004 by MichaelFilo

[MorphRC]

[quote]Easter - resurrection of Attis.[/quote]

The only thing pagan is the name Easter. Jewish Christians call it Pesach still, Passover.

[MorphRC]

[quote]The saints were all converted forms of Roman gods.[/quote]

Even Joan of Arc! :-O!

[cmotherofpirl]

Is this high school, college ?

[MorphRC]

I think its High school

[MichaelFilo]

Yea, it's highschool. Ib program too. Anyways, maybe the topic name doesn't attract people to take a peek? I'll keep on researching. Right now I want to get some stuff on the saints and holidays, because in the book, it says that the real difference that Christianity had was that it stopped sex from going around so freely, but mostly just adapted paganism to suit itself. I find that definatly not true, and anyone can clearly say why. While the St. Augustine quotes my be legit, the wording he uses definatly makes it seem like the quotes don't mean what they say. Anyways, if I can at lest get help on the saints and stuff, something to prove that the early early Church believed in sainthood, that would be great.

Thanks in advance,

God bless,

Michael Filo

[MorphRC]

[b]Quotes on the Intercession of Saints:[/b]

Hermas

"[The Shepherd said:] ‘But those who are weak and slothful in prayer, hesitate to ask anything from the Lord; but the Lord is full of compassion, and gives without fail to all who ask him. But you, [Hermas,] having been strengthened by the holy angel [you saw], and having obtained from him such intercession, and not being slothful, why do not you ask of the Lord understanding, and receive it from him?’" (The Shepherd 3:5:4 [A.D. 80]).


Clement of Alexandria

"In this way is he [the true Christian] always pure for prayer. He also prays in the society of angels, as being already of angelic rank, and he is never out of their holy keeping; and though he pray alone, he has the choir of the saints standing with him [in prayer]" (Miscellanies 7:12 [A.D. 208]).


Origen

"But not the high priest [Christ] alone prays for those who pray sincerely, but also the angels . . . as also the souls of the saints who have already fallen asleep" (Prayer 11 [A.D. 233]).


Cyprian of Carthage



"Let us remember one another in concord and unanimity. Let us on both sides [of death] always pray for one another. Let us relieve burdens and afflictions by mutual love, that if one of us, by the swiftness of divine condescension, shall go hence first, our love may continue in the presence of the Lord, and our prayers for our brethren and sisters not cease in the presence of the Father’s mercy" (Letters 56[60]:5 [A.D. 253]).


Anonymous



"Atticus, sleep in peace, secure in your safety, and pray anxiously for our sins" (funerary inscription near St. Sabina’s in Rome [A.D. 300]).

"Pray for your parents, Matronata Matrona. She lived one year, fifty-two days" (ibid.).

"Mother of God, [listen to] my petitions; do not disregard us in adversity, but rescue us from danger" (Rylands Papyrus 3 [A.D. 350]).


Methodius

"Hail to you for ever, Virgin Mother of God, our unceasing joy, for to you do I turn again. You are the beginning of our feast; you are its middle and end; the pearl of great price that belongs to the kingdom; the fat of every victim, the living altar of the Bread of Life [Jesus]. Hail, you treasure of the love of God. Hail, you fount of the Son’s love for man. . . . You gleamed, sweet gift-bestowing Mother, with the light of the sun; you gleamed with the insupportable fires of a most fervent charity, bringing forth in the end that which was conceived of you . . . making manifest the mystery hidden and unspeakable, the invisible Son of the Father—the Prince of Peace, who in a marvelous manner showed himself as less than all littleness" (Oration on Simeon and Anna 14 [A.D. 305]).

"Therefore, we pray [ask] you, the most excellent among women, who glories in the confidence of your maternal honors, that you would unceasingly keep us in remembrance. O holy Mother of God, remember us, I say, who make our boast in you, and who in august hymns celebrate the memory, which will ever live, and never fade away" (ibid.).

"And you also, O honored and venerable Simeon, you earliest host of our holy religion, and teacher of the resurrection of the faithful, do be our patron and advocate with that Savior God, whom you were deemed worthy to receive into your arms. We, together with you, sing our praises to Christ, who has the power of life and death, saying, ‘You are the true Light, proceeding from the true Light; the true God, begotten of the true God’" (ibid.).

[b]Source:[/b] [url="http://www.catholic.com/library/Intercession_of_the_Saints.asp"]http://www.catholic.com/library/Intercessi..._the_Saints.asp[/url]

[MorphRC]

[url="http://www.catholic.com/library/Saint_Worship.asp"]http://www.catholic.com/library/Saint_Worship.asp[/url]

Proves that saints arent worshipped and also gives a background to it. Might help