Slavery

[catholicguy]

Is slavery intrinsically evil?

[catholicguy]

"Slavery itself, considered as such in its essential nature, is not at all contrary to the natural and divine law, and there can be several just titles of slavery and these are referred to by approved theologians and commentators of the sacred canons.... It is not contrary to the natural and divine law for a slave to be sold, bought, exchanged or given”. Blessed Pope Pius IX (20 June 1866).

"To attain the truth in all things, we ought always to hold what seems to us white to be black if the hierachical Church so defines it..." St. Ignatius Loyola

[Aloysius]

In different times different things are acceptable. This does not contradict unchanging objective truth, just merely accepts the fact that cultures and peoples change. Racist slavery has always been wrong and condemned by the Catholic Church. Unjust slavery has always been wrong and condemned by the Catholic Church. But there is a certain principle of just slavery that was allowed for in a different time and culture. The slave works for their master in exchange for food and shelter. The slave must be treated justly and not overworked or treated poorly. The shelter must be decent and the food must sustain them. In today's culture, this cannot and would not work, and is no longer acceptable. In that time, it was acceptable for it was the best way that people on such a poor level were able to work and eat. Nowadays, factors are different and everyone has the oppurtunity to work and eat without having to resort to slavery.

Thus, because it is acceptable for a different time and culture, it cannot be considered intrinsically evil. However, it can be considered morally wrong in today's day and age considering the factors of today's society and today's culture. Slavery should not be allowed nowadays. Now, say civilization were to fall and society crumbled, but some people came out still alright. It would then be morally licit for them to have the people who were not so fortunate when society fell to work for them in exchange for food and shelter which those people could not find anywhere else.

if that makes sense, it is my understanding

Pax

[catholicguy]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Jul 16 2004, 02:40 PM'] In different times different things are acceptable. This does not contradict unchanging objective truth, just merely accepts the fact that cultures and peoples change. Racist slavery has always been wrong and condemned by the Catholic Church. Unjust slavery has always been wrong and condemned by the Catholic Church. But there is a certain principle of just slavery that was allowed for in a different time and culture. The slave works for their master in exchange for food and shelter. The slave must be treated justly and not overworked or treated poorly. The shelter must be decent and the food must sustain them. In today's culture, this cannot and would not work, and is no longer acceptable. In that time, it was acceptable for it was the best way that people on such a poor level were able to work and eat. Nowadays, factors are different and everyone has the oppurtunity to work and eat without having to resort to slavery.

Thus, because it is acceptable for a different time and culture, it cannot be considered intrinsically evil. However, it can be considered morally wrong in today's day and age considering the factors of today's society and today's culture. Slavery should not be allowed nowadays. Now, say civilization were to fall and society crumbled, but some people came out still alright. It would then be morally licit for them to have the people who were not so fortunate when society fell to work for them in exchange for food and shelter which those people could not find anywhere else.

if that makes sense, it is my understanding

Pax [/quote]
OK, so you agree that it is not intrinsically evil. I agree with your assessment of society in the US; however, are there places in Africa, Asia, and elsewhere that may possibly be able to have slavery in a sense that is acceptable, since their cultures are radically different than the US?

[Aloysius]

I'm not sure, I think with the times we live in even though those cultures are different, we live in a time in which slavery is not the way to provide work food and shelter for people. I think that is reflected in the current Code of Cannon Law's banning of slavery, that in today's age the society world-wide cannot exist with slavery.

I mean, Sudan's attempts at slavery are certainly racist and unjust. are there any examples of just slavery in today's society that are plausible?

[catholicguy]

Code of Canon Law (1983) states that there cannot be any slavery??

[VeraMaria]

Look up and read some of the awesome articles in this section:

[url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=12032"]http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=12032[/url]

Go to "Slavery"

God Bless

[Aloysius]

actually, I guess I never looked into that, someone told me that once and I took their word for it. I'll check for ya.

[catholicguy]

[quote name='VeraMaria' date='Jul 16 2004, 03:00 PM'] Look up and read some of the awesome articles in this section:

[url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=12032"]http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=12032[/url]

Go to "Slavery"

God Bless [/quote]
I can't stand reading Fr. Most... I don't know if it's the fact that he is a neo-con or just his form of writing...

Edited July 16, 2004 by catholicguy

[cmotherofpirl]

Father Most is a faithful Catholic theologian.

[Aloysius]

what do you all think of my analysis though?

[foundsheep]

When people owed much debt to someone they would "enslave" themselves to the debt owner. Sometimes debting ones life.

[Guest JeffCR07]

catholicguy, it entirely depends on the kind of slavery that you are talking about. The enslaving of a race merely because it is a race is most certainly evil. This having been said, the use of slavery as a punishment is not an intrinsically evil thing - it is certainly preferable (in my opinion) to the death penalty - but at the same time one must remember that a punishment must fit its crime, and if it does not, then the punishment itself is equally criminal.

Also, just as a matter to think about: If it is permissible for a man to become the slave of another man on account of his sins, so to is it with man and God, for it is just that we all become slaves of God on account of our transgressions.

As has been said, to be a slave is nothing more than to give obediance wherever it can be given, this does not, in any way, justify the misuse of authority by the person to whom that obediance is given, for even "slavery" does not strip one of his or her humanity, and thus his or her dignity, for all are made in the image of God.

- Your Brother In Christ, Jeff

[Theoketos]

In the book "Love and Responsibility" the Pope writes that a person is an end in and of themselves and [b]never a means[/b]. Using a person as a means is treating them like an object, [b]which is contrary to the intrisic dignity of the Human Person[/b].

Slavery is using some one as a means to and end, by its very definition in any culture.

Thus slavery is always wrong, because it uses some one as a means to an end.

It does not matter if the use of that person produces a good, for the ends does not justify the means. (Other wise you fall in to the disordered philosophy of utilitarianism). I ask you brethern to be really careful about justifing this.

Also the Church does regonize that each culture is different and requires certian needs, which should be meet, but the Job of the Church is to bring the Culture up, not placate it.

[url="http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_cons_19651207_gaudium-et-spes_en.html"]Also look here in [u]Gaudiam et Spes[/u] under 27 29 & 67[/url]

[Flash]

I Agree Theoketos