cmotherofpirl Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 Ironmonk... why do bad things happen to people??? Why is it God's will that Children get abused and people are starving in this world? It is not God's will but free will. God wants us to know love and serve Him. But FREE will gives you a choice: to be a devil or a saint . You choose. People can choose to love, or to hate, to cause pain, or give joy. God loves us enough not to make us robots, and loves us enough to respect our decisions. Everyone's sin affects everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted September 7, 2003 Author Share Posted September 7, 2003 Ironmonk... why do bad things happen to people??? Why is it God's will that Children get abused and people are starving in this world? Cmom said it very well... I just would like to add... It is God's will that we have the choice to be devils or sinners. Life is a test. Bad things happen to good people so that we develop. Bad things that happen to us are for our own good. We are to depend on Christ. Suffering brings us closer to Christ. Think of how many people actually call on God in times of trouble. When things are going good, many people forget the Lord. Christ suffered, why shouldn't we? This world is nothing... nothing on this world matters more than living the way God wants us to. Everything that we do that is not for the Lord is fruitless, it will pass. Likewise, all things will pass... no matter how bad. No matter what pain or injustice, it will pass and be nothing more than a faint memory very soon. Our time here is not even a drop in the ocean compared to all of eternity with the Lord. Please read the verse in my signature... God Bless, Love in Christ & Mary ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 Thanks for your concern. I'm not going to do that because I see no point. As with you, I'm at the point where NOTHING anybody says will change my beliefs...but I'm here to learn and be challenged. What's the matter, Robyn? Are you scared that if you meditate on it, it will start to make sense? Are you scared of being wrong? Are you scared of change? What's up with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 Maybe its the idea that it came from a catholic. If a protestant minister asked you to meditiate on a scripture would you do it then? You have stated a contradiction:" I'm at the point where NOTHING anybody says will change my beliefs...but I'm here to learn and be challenged." You can do one or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted September 7, 2003 Author Share Posted September 7, 2003 Thanks for your concern. I'm not going to do that because I see no point. As with you, I'm at the point where NOTHING anybody says will change my beliefs...but I'm here to learn and be challenged. Actually, sort of in your defense...if I do read and meditate as you suggest, it will only keep my view on God. Every time I read those verses I can SEE examples of the people spoken about...and I see ever MORE how much I am where God wants me to be. There is a verse in the bible...I'd love to add it here, but I'd rather look at it first...sort of contradicts and supports your view... A man was on a boat that was sinking. Another man came by on a small boat and said "Jump in before you sink" The sinking man said "No, I have prayed and God will save me" A second rescue boat came by, the second man said "Come with me to land." The sinking man said "No, I have prayed and God will save me" A third man came to him, now the water was up to the sinking man's neck. The third man said "Hurry get in so that you will live." The sinking man said "No, I have prayed and God will save me" The man drowned.... The man was now in Heaven, and he asked Jesus "I prayed and prayed, why didn't you save me?" Jesus replied "I sent three people." How is meditating on Scripture and reading scripture over and over a bad request? How do you know if you are where God wants you to be if you do not meditate on what the Apostles taught, and look for the Church built by Christ? If the Apostles tell us that true believers will be drawn away from the truth (Acts 20:30), how do you know that you are not a true believer that has been drawn away from the truth? ...I do not want an answer, these are things you must ask yourself... as Christians, we have an abligation to study and know Christ; and the Church that He left us to guide us in all Truth (St. John 14:16-18). God Bless, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robyn Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 LOL!! :D I get off the net, and think "Ok, I WILL read those verses" and then I come back here and get bible-bashed! The thing is, if I DO meditate as you would like me to, then I'll probably come back with the verses all pulled apart and analysed....and I know already that they won't lead me to the Catholic church...why? Romans 8:37-39: For I am convinced....neither [all these things] will be able to separate me from the love of God. and I have already read them here Maybe its the idea that it came from a catholic.and NO my reaction wasn't because a Catholic asked me! It was because I couldn't be bothered...until I saw the good in it. If a protestant minister asked you to meditiate on a scripture would you do it then? Seriously...it would depend. I need to have a reason and know their motivation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robyn Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 What's the matter, Robyn? Are you scared that if you meditate on it, it will start to make sense? Are you scared of being wrong? Are you scared of change? What's up with that? SCARED??? LOL! :D I'm up for the challenge! Actually, it only took me abt 10mins to change my mind...but I couldn't just turn the net back on and find the verses. I had an appointment (church). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted September 8, 2003 Author Share Posted September 8, 2003 Robyn, Did you know that the first Christians did no believe as you do? Did you know that Christians have been explaining the Gospel since the first century, in writing, and we have those writings? How does one know if they have the proper interpretation of Scripture? Read the verses and meditate on them AND read the bible over and over... pay close attention to where Christ and the Apostles speak of unity and having One Faith. You have no way of knowing if you are in the Church built by Christ unless you study history... for all you know, you could be in a group spoken of in Acts 20:30 and 2 Peter 3:15-17. You say that you know it won't lead you to the Catholic Church... If you love Christ, you will want the truth.... Truth is not based on feelings. If you love Christ you will seek the truth... you will either find out that you are in the Church founded in 33 AD or you will find out that you are not in the One True Church.... So if you love Christ, stop saying what it will or won't do; you haven't tried it, you do not know. Other questions you need to ask yourself: How did we get the New Testament? Where in the Bible do we find an inspired and infallible list of books that should belong in the Bible? How do we know, from the Bible alone, that the individual books of the New Testament are inspired, even when they make no claim to be inspired? How do we know, from the Bible alone, that the individual books of the New Testament are inspired, even when they make no claim to be inspired? Where does the Bible claim to be the sole authority for Christians in matters of faith and morals? How do we know who wrote the books that we call Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Acts, Hebrews, and 1, 2, and 3 John? On what authority, or on what principle, would we accept as Scripture books that we know were not written by one of the twelve apostles? If the Bible is the only foundation and basis of Christian truth, why does the Bible itself say that the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth (1 Tim. 3:15)? If Christianity is a "book religion," how did it flourish during the first 1500 years of Church history when the vast majority of people were illiterate? Who in the Church had the authority to determine which books belonged in the New Testament canon and to make this decision binding on all Christians? If nobody has this authority, then can I remove or add books to the canon on my own authority? Where in the Bible is God's Word restricted only to what is written down? If the authors of the New Testament believed in sola Scriptura, why did they sometimes draw on oral Tradition as authoritative and as God's Word (Matt 2:23; 23:2; 1 Cor 10:4; 1 Pet 3:19; Jude 9, 14 15)? If you cannot find an answer to those questions or refuse to look for an answer, then you are in danger of being in a church that is described in Acts 20:30, and 2 Peter 3:15-17. Christian History is not a mystery, it is well documented... If the church you are in is the Church founded by Christ, it will hold up to the scrutiny and be found as True. Your faith will be strengthend... If your church can hold up to this scrutiny, I would want to join it.... I want to be in the Truth of Christ's Church. If the church you are in cannot hold up to this scrutiny, you need to search for the One that does... and then when finding it, learn all you can and join her. God Bless, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JP2 Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 BOOOO YAAAAHHHHHHH Iron Monk!!!! Dude...that was amesome. You can teach us many things. God Bless and keep up the good work! JP2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[jas] Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 Did you know that Christians have been explaining the Gospel since the first century, in writing, and we have those writings? So if these writings are completely (a.) historically accurate, and (b.) inspired by God, why were they not included in scripture. If they weren't, why would I want to read them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 So if these writings are completely (a.) historically accurate, and (b.) inspired by God, why were they not included in scripture. If they weren't, why would I want to read them? No, [jas], ironmonk didn't say those writings were considered inspired. However, they ARE useful for learning about what the early Church believed and obeyed. And just because they're not considered inspired doesn't mean what was written was wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted September 9, 2003 Author Share Posted September 9, 2003 ,Sep 8 2003, 10:44 PM] So if these writings are completely (a.) historically accurate, and (b.) inspired by God, why were they not included in scripture. If they weren't, why would I want to read them? How do you know what writings are inspired by God? Do you read any book or listen to what any pastor's has to say about the Scriptures? Why go to any church to hear someone speak about the Scriptures, since their interpretations are not infallible, why listen? God Bless, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[jas] Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 Okay, fine. What I'm saying, though, is that if they were deemed by your council of whenever that decided what writings to canonise as scripture, why weren't they included? I'm not sure exactly what the criteria was for a writing to be canonised (can someone enlighten me on this?) but there was obviously some reason that they weren't considered good enough to be scripture. If I read a book or listen to a message, then yes, I am hearing someone's interpretation, which may or may not be inspired by the Holy Spirit. But I don't then use that to try and prove a point, I use the Word of God, which we know is inspired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yiannii Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 The Church's teachings are inspired as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robyn Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 (edited) *Puts on Aussie accent* Geez! One thing at a time mate! Some of us have to work for a living! How does one know if they have the proper interpretation of Scripture?THROUGH LISTENING TO THE HOLY SPIRIT! Truth is not based on feelings. ah DUH! My faith is based on feelings AND experience AND the leading of the holy spirit...etc. I don't just listen to a preacher and believe everything he has to say...I have a brain. Try to tell me evolution isn't true...with FACTS! and I mean SCIENTIFIC facts. It's impossible to state whether creation or evolution is fact! It's a matter of faith. If you love Christ you will seek the truth... you will either find out that you are in the Church founded in 33 AD or you will find out that you are not in the One True Church.... I don't belive in the "one true church" - I believe in the "church" - Jesus' church. Edited September 9, 2003 by Robyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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