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Jesus And Chow Mein


Robyn

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Robyn and Unshackled,

How did you learn about God? How should we all learn about God? Is it all just individual discernment, or is it through Communities?

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John 14:6 Jesus answered him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life; no one goes to the Father except by me. (GNB)

This verse DOES NOT state the Catholic church is the way

This verse DOES NOT state the Protestant church is the way

However it DOES state “I” AM THE WAY. = Jesus is the way.

Denomination is not stated as necessary.

Therefore, as it seems we ALL have stated belief that God is the final judge, and the bible doesn’t state WHICH denomination is best…do you think God would refuse us because of our denomination?

You're forgetting that the Catholic Church was established by Jesus. He can't be separated from His Church. Thus, to reject the Catholic Church is to reject Jesus Christ.

Jesus didn't refer to denominations because they were never in His will. He willed that there be ONE Church with ONE set of doctrines, not thousands with different doctrines.

But does that mean non-Catholic Christians will be refused by Him? If they sincerely seek Him, no! Besides, they, by virtue of their faith in Him and their baptism, are, in a way, in communion with the Church, albeit imperfectly.

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bleh......you're just telling me the same thing as always, in different words...

and I have NO reference to the Catholic church in my bible...and nowhere does it say that Jesus established the Catholic church...unless of course you refer to Catholic literature...

I AM THE WAY THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE... FULL STOP!

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Robyn, I can tell that you are sincere in your faith and that you love Christ. However, I think you really should consider other options. This is for a couple of reasons. First, if you examine the other options and you still come back to the faith you have now, you will be stronger in your faith and in a better position to defend it. If you realize that maybe your faith has some flaws in it, you will be more open to seeking more of Christ's truth. That is a good rule of thumb for everyone in a debate. You must examine your argument and your opponent's argument and address them directly. Simply getting mad and criticizing others or not addressing their arguments is not a good way to debate and you will rarely convince others of your position.

Now, you said that your Bible makes no reference to the Catholic Church. I certainly agree. Mine doesn't either. However, you must remember that when the Bible was put together there was only one church. If you made a tree of every single Christian denomination in the world today, you could trace all denominations back to the first Christians. The Catholic Church is only known as the Catholic Church today because it needs to in response to every other denomination having its own name. So, Martin Luther, a Catholic priest, broke away from Catholicism making Lutheranism. That is a faith founded by a man. The Church of England, also known as the Anglican Church and Episcopalian Church came to be when the King of England was not granted a divorce from his wife by the Pope. In this case, we have a church breaking off from the Catholic Church because one man did not wish to honor the vows he had made before God. John Wesley started the Methodist Church, again a Church started by a man. There are countless Evangelical and Pentecostal Churches founded by various ministers. Churches started by MEN.

So, the logical question is that since every Protestant denomination can eventually trace its origen back to Catholicism, where can Catholicism trace its origen back to? The answer is Christ. Christ came to earth to found a Church. This Church put together the Bible. The idea that you need the Bible to get to heaven means we just through all the apostles out of heaven, because there was no Bible at that time. Up until very recently, most people couldn't even read. This is still the case in many, many countries throughout the world.

So Robyn, and others, my question to you specifically is, how do we know what books belong in the Bible? Since the Canon was not established until a few hundred years after the death of Jesus and the apostles, how do we know we have the right Canon? Who determines what made the cut and what didn't? Who determines how scripture should be interpreted? Does God leave this up to each individual person, or does he have an institution in place with someone at its head to determine what books make up the Bible and how they should be interpreted?

Remember, please, address the argument and the questions raised. God Bless.

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Robyn, I can tell that you are sincere in your faith and that you love Christ.  However, I think you really should consider other options.

Maybe this could apply both ways!

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robyn you gunna respond to that last one?

No...I don't have time to debate an issue I don't find important ;)

I have about 9 different bibles...I have no problems with any of them...what do you want me to say?

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No...I don't have time to debate an issue I don't find important ;)

So therefore, you submit that the Catholic Church was responsible for descerning the difference between inspired and non-inspired? Which we have the Bible today, as truely and fully inspired?

If this is not an important subject, then what is?

Edited by Paladin D
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Maybe this could apply both ways!

believe me, I have considered other options. listening to a devout Protestant minister is what got me to question my Catholic faith. The fact that he raised questions I didn't have the answers to made me go and find them. After researching these issues from a Protestant and Catholic point of view, I am thouroughly convinced that the Catholic Church is the one, true Church founded by Christ almost 2000 years ago. I've done the research and checked out the facts, I'm now challenging you to do the same. Don't just spout off old rhetoric and criticize people. Engage their argument and argue based on facts, not opinion.

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