Can He Answer My Questions

[ayed]

In the Name Allah , the Most compassionate, the Most gracious

Hi, all forumpeers ! Are you fine? How you doing?

I do appreciate any bit answer on my following questions:

1-Salvation , as you believe in , is through Jesus , then will the pre-Jesus nations be sentenced to Hell?

2-How many God was there before Jesus was born ?

3-Who gave life to Jesus when he was dead for three days?

4-During death’s Jesus , who kept heavens from caving in on the earth?who cared about ships on sea , birds in the sky, people on the earth?

5- Jesus said “No servant can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other”(Luke 16:13)

>>>How can you love three gods at one time?

6-Jesus said”For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you”,”But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins”(Matthew 6 : 14~15)

>>> you believe in man is born sinned , then it contradicts with the above verses!!!

>>>From verse 6 , Jesus says “Your Father” while he says in another verses”My father” If so, then he and you are sons of Allah(Allah is above all what is said)???

>>>If Jesus is a son of Allah , then you are sons of Allah,

>>>If you are not sons of Allah,then Jesus is not a son of Allah.

>>>You say that Iesa(Jesus) is a god walked on the earth and people saw him, then this contraditcs with what Jesus said” … to your father who is UNSEEN”(Cf, Matthew 6:18)

If you cannot answer my questions , then I pray anyone of you who can convey them to any priest to be answered

Have my greetings,

Ayed ,

ayed4all@hotmail.com

[Jake Huether]

In the Name Allah , the Most compassionate, the Most gracious

Hi, all forumpeers ! Are you fine? How you doing?

I do appreciate any bit answer on my following questions:

1-Salvation , as you believe in , is through Jesus , then will the pre-Jesus nations be sentenced to Hell?

2-How many God was there before Jesus was born ?

3-Who gave life to Jesus when he was dead for three days?

4-During death’s Jesus , who kept heavens from caving in on the earth?who cared about ships on sea , birds in the sky, people on the earth?

5- Jesus said “No servant can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other”(Luke 16:13)

>>>How can you love three gods at one time?

6-Jesus said”For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you”,”But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins”(Matthew 6 : 14~15)

>>> you believe in man is born sinned , then it contradicts with the above verses!!!

>>>From verse 6 , Jesus says “Your Father” while he says in another verses”My father” If so, then he and you are sons of Allah(Allah is above all what is said)???

>>>If Jesus is a son of Allah , then you are sons of Allah,

>>>If you are not sons of Allah,then Jesus is not a son of Allah.

>>>You say that Iesa(Jesus) is a god walked on the earth and people saw him, then this contraditcs with what Jesus said” … to your father who is UNSEEN”(Cf, Matthew 6:18)

If you cannot answer my questions , then I pray anyone of you who can convey them to any priest to be answered

Have my greetings,

Ayed ,

ayed4all@hotmail.com

1-Salvation , as you believe in , is through Jesus , then will the pre-Jesus nations be sentenced to Hell?

Jesus' salvific action, his death on the cross and his resurection, saved all people past present and future - if they so choose to accept his gift of salvation.

The gates of heaven were closed with Adam and Eve sinned. Jesus opend the gates. However, those who died before Jesus, didn't go to burning in hell for eternity. Those who died in the love of God were sent to a wating place (hades), until Jesus would open those gates.

2-How many God was there before Jesus was born ?

There was ONE God before, and ONE God after! :D

The ONE God has always been three persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. When Jesus was born, it was God the Son who took on flesh. So, while the Son was in existence for EVER, his flesh has been in existance since his birth. In other words, Jesus, fully God, fully man existed since his birth. Before Jesus was born, the Son still existed, fully God (but not yet fully man).

I answered 3 - 5 on another post. It is connected to Jesus being true God true man, and the Son being a different person from the Father and the Spirit.

5- Jesus said “No servant can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other”(Luke 16:13)

>>>How can you love three gods at one time?

We only serve ONE God. Our ONE God has revealed himself to us in three persons ONE BEING. Father, Son, and Spirit. When we serve Jesus, we Serve the Father. Just like he said, "when you see me, you see the Father." When we worship the Father, we are worshiping his Son and the Holy Spirit. When we praise the Holy Spirit, we are also parising the Father and the Son. The are not seperate - the are ONE. ONE GOD, three persons.

We serve ONE master, our ONE master is three persons.

>>>From verse 6 , Jesus says “Your Father” while he says in another verses”My father” If so, then he and you are sons of Allah(Allah is above all what is said)???

Unless we are "sons" in a different way. Say, by adoption. Jesus is the Son, by virtue of His Divinity. He was God and man. We are sons of God by virtue of our creation by Him, and our humanity shared with Jesus. We are sons of the Father, but there is only one SON of the Father. We are not divine, Jesus is.

>>>You say that Iesa(Jesus) is a god walked on the earth and people saw him, then this contraditcs with what Jesus said” … to your father who is UNSEEN”(Cf, Matthew 6:18)

But Jesus isn't the Father. The Father is unseen. Jesus, the Son, IS seen. And "when you see me, you see the Father". Jesus, the Son made flesh, is the human "vision" of God the Father, who is unseen.

ONE God, three persons. Not the same as individual human persons - because humans are one person AND one being. So if you have 3 human persons, you have 3 human beings. God is ONE being, three persons. He is Father, He is Son, He is Holy Spirit. The Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God. ONE GOD.

God has revealed himself to us as such. If God spoke and said, I have 3 legs (hypothetically), then you would believe God, right? He has spoken to us through Scripture and through His Church, and He has said that He is three persons, ONE BEING. ONE GOD, but three persons. We cannot say He isn't, although logic dumbfounds us. We simply believe, because this is what he's shown us.

[ayed]

In the Name Allah , the Most compassionate, the Most gracious

Thank you Jake heuther , members and visitors.

Believe me ,Jake that I cordially appreciate any bit of comment or advice even if it is a bit of word .

Jake Heuther :” The gates of heaven were closed with Adam and Eve sinned”

Ayed :Adam and Eve repented and Allah forgave them:

In the Holy Qur’an:

“Then Adam received from his Lord Words And his Lord pardoned him (accepted his repentance) Verily, He is the One Who forgives (accepts repentance), the Most Merciful”(Al-Baqarh , 2:37)

Ayed : Salvation--At the end of life -- right before the day of Judgement :the Messiah a man one of his eyes is dried up --a fabricating man--a swindler will come over roaming and purporting that he is Allah .Of this fabricator’s deceptions , that he is holding a sword with which he strikes on one’s head ; splitting him down into identical two parts , then he gives life to the divided dead man.Some people believe him and others disbelive. So, >>>Allah will send Iesa , who dwells in the second heaven , down on the earth to :

>>>kill this fabricating man .

>>>Iesa will smash the cross(which some people respect)

>>>Iesa will kill the pig

>>>Iesa will impose tax

>>>Iesa will not accept any religion other than Islam(submission to the only one Creator , Allah)

>>>Iesa will be the Imam(a leading prayer bows and kneels down and people praying after him)for all nations.

>>>peace will prevail in all of the corners of the world for 40 years or so.

>>>the earth will be overgrown with grass and plants

>>>Iesa for the FIRST time will die by Allah’s will

>>>the Hour will start for Judgement .Either to Paradise or Hell.

Jake!This is what we, Muslims, believe in if you mean all people in past present and future.

Jake “the Son being a different person from the Father and the Spirit”

Ayed :So, you have three gods which leds to polythiesm whatsoever you , Jake,try to intromit this belief in your minds as one God.

Jake ! When you hear the “Father” is mentioned , an image of old man will pop up on your mind, when the “son” is mentioned , then an image o a good-looking guy will hover over you mind, when the “holy spirit” is mentioned , then an image of a white dove will come in your mind.Accordingly, whatsoever, my dear Jake shove up all three images as one God , it do not work.

Honsetly, please , Jake, to ask anyone what will come into his mind when Trinity mentioned?Or even you ,

Jake:” We serve ONE master, our ONE master is three persons”

Jake:”The are not seperate - the are ONE. ONE GOD, three persons”

Jake:” But Jesus isn't the Father. The Father is unseen. Jesus, the Son, IS seen”

Ayed : Jake!according to you comments , you worship ONE master which inescapably necessitates that you worship the three persons since they are tied up with each other.

2-What do you mean by “the son I begotten”?

just log on this link and give me your impressions :

http://www.thetruereligion.com/converts.htm

Have my warm greetings,

Ayed ,

ayed4all@hotmail.com

[Good Friday]

May the peace of God our Father be with you, ayed.

Ayed :Adam and Eve repented and Allah forgave them:

In the Holy Qur’an:

“Then Adam received from his Lord Words And his Lord pardoned him (accepted his repentance) Verily, He is the One Who forgives (accepts repentance), the Most Merciful”(Al-Baqarh , 2:37)

I don't think anyone denies that God may have forgiven Adam's and Eve's personal sin if they were truly contrite. This does not, however, dismiss the punishment given by God to Adam and Eve (and all humanity) in our Bible. In His mercy, there can be no doubt that God our Father would forgive anyone who would return to Him. But in His justice, something must atone for the grievous sin committed against God by Adam. God's mercy does not cancel out His justice, nor does His justice cancel out His mercy. He is all-just and all-merciful.

Jake “the Son being a different person from the Father and the Spirit”

Ayed :So, you have three gods which leds to polythiesm whatsoever you , Jake,try to intromit this belief in your minds as one God.

We do not have three gods; we have one God in three Divine Persons. Just as in Christianity every Christian is a member of the Body of Christ, but there is only one Body; and the husband and the wife are both members of one flesh, but there is only one flesh; so the three Divine Persons are all members of one God, but there is only one God. It is a mystery. It's not possible for our limited human minds to fully comprehend it.

[ayed]

Thank you Good Friday,

I have mentioned Adam and Eve because you , Nazarethans believe in that man is born sinned.

Since Allah , All-Forgiver has forgiven them , then man is born pure as a pearl bean in the oyster .

I am waiting Jake or anyon'es comments.

thank you all

ayed4all@hotmailcom

[ReformationNow]

Peace be upon you Ayed

The Holy Bible teaches that All men have sinned(Rom 5:12) because of the sin of Adam. Because Adam sinned, sin has passed unto all men, and therefore death comes to us all. We are born and conceived in sin(Psalms 51:5). We go astray as soon as we are born(Psalms 58:3). All that is born in flesh(natural, physical birth) is sinful(John 3:6). The only one to never sin was Christ Jesus(Heb 4:15). Men are born sinful, not pure. Because of Adam's sin, sin entered the world into all humanity.

[Jake Huether]

Ayed :Adam and Eve repented and Allah forgave them:

In the Holy Qur’an:

“Then Adam received from his Lord Words  And his Lord pardoned him (accepted his repentance) Verily, He is the One Who forgives (accepts repentance), the Most Merciful”(Al-Baqarh , 2:37)

Have my warm greetings,

Adam and Eve were forgiven, but if you remember, they were kicked out of the Garden of Edan. They were not let back in.

Ayed :So, you have three gods which leds to polythiesm whatsoever you , Jake,try to intromit this belief in your minds as one God.

Jake ! When you hear the “Father” is mentioned , an image of old man will pop up on your mind, when the “son” is mentioned , then an image o a good-looking guy will hover over you mind, when the “holy spirit” is mentioned , then an image of a white dove will come in your mind.Accordingly, whatsoever, my dear Jake shove up all three images as one God , it do not work.

Honsetly, please  , Jake, to ask anyone what will come into his mind when Trinity mentioned?Or even you ,

Ayed, when you hear ice you see an image of a clear cube, but it is H20. When you hear water, you picture a glass of clear liquid, but it is H20. When you hear vapor, you think of a boiling pot of water, but it is H20.

Different images don't necessitate different beings. Like I said, you have to remember that the definition of "person" and the definition of "being" are different. Multiple persons in one being is SINGULAR.

Ayed : Jake!according to you comments , you worship ONE master which inescapably necessitates that you worship the three persons since they are tied up with each other.

Absolutely! But you are blocking out the fact that "persons" doesn't mean "beings" we worship three divine persons, which is ONE God!

2-What do you mean by “the son I begotten”?

The Son is begotten, not made - that is part of our creed. Begotten simply means, Fathered. The Son has a Father - that means the Son was begotten. But the fact that He is the Son, in the case of God, doesn't mean that He was made, or that He came AFTER the Father. The Father and the Son have always been that way! That is why He made us in His image. We reflect God. The Son was begotten, not made. He is one in being with the Father. The Son took flesh through Mary and became a man - Jesus.

just log on this link and give me your impressions :

http://www.thetruereligion.com/converts.htm

I found this from that site:

George Anthony - Former Catholic priest (Source, including photographs: http://www.islam.com.kw/3.htm#MY JOURNEY TO ISLAM)

Fr. Antony was a Catholic priest in Sri Lanka. His tale of becoming a true believer and adopting a name Adulrahman for him is quite interesting. Being a Christian priest he was well versed with the teachings of the Bible. He quotes the Bible frequently as he sits to narrate his journey to Islam. While reading the Bible he found many contradictions in it. He goes on quoting verses from the Bible in Sinhalese language and points out the ambiguity.

“He quotes Esaiah 9:12 which reads like this.” And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith; I am not learned.” This verse is a prophecy towards prophet Mohammed (pbuh), because Mohammad (pubh) was an unlettered prophet and when he was an unlettered prophet and when he was asked by Angel Gabrielto read out the first divine revelation upon him he said, “I am not learned” Contrary to the Christian belief that Jesus is God, Acts 2:22 of the Holy Bible considers Jesus as a man. It says, “Ye men of Israel, hear these words, jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourself also know.”

Christianity and the other religions, do not define the prophehood according to him. Nor does Bhudda and is silent about the other prophets. Contrary to this it is compulsory in Islam to believe in all the formaer Prophets and to revere them. According to Abdulrahman this belief is quite convincing and appealing to every body.

Abdulrahman says that there is no reason for the restriction that a Roman Catholic priest cannot marry, when the priests of many other sects of Christianity can marry. Abdulrahman was pondering over the confusions of Christian belief. Meanwhile he got an Audio Cassette of a converted Christian priest Sri Lanka Shareef D Alwis. Cassettes of Ahmad Deedat also attracted him. His continuous efforts to find the truth finally resulted in reversion to Islam. Fr. George Antony

Abdulrahman, hails from the Rathnapura village of Sri Lanka. He was rendering his services as a priest in Katumayaka church. He has ten years of training of the priesthood to his credit.

He wrote letters to his mother introducing Islam. After months of studies she followed the path of her son and embraced Islam. Abdurahman’s only sister is working in Greece. His father and sister still remained Christians.

Abdurahman gave up his highly respected career as a priest for the sake of truth. He happily sacrificed all material gains for the spiritual triumph. He is now working as a trainee in Islam Presentation Committee of Kuwait.

Sadly, it appears that Fr. George Anthony didn't know his Faith.

The very first paragraph is discouraging, and frustrating. It says that Fr. Anthony found contradictions in the Bible, which is just not true. If Fr. Anthony had sought out Catholic guidance as to why there were seemingly "contradictions" I'm sure that he could have found the answeres he was looking for. In fact, that first paragraph contradicts itself. Ambiguitiy doesn't necessitate contradiction! In fact ambiguity doesn't even necessitate error! Ambiguity simply indicates that there is the need for further information!

Heres the correct deffinition for ambiguity, in the case of the Bible:

2 : capable of being understood in two or more possible senses or ways - from the online webster dictionary.

And YES the Bible is ambiguious! That is why we have the Catholic Church to guide us!. And consiquently that is why there are 30,000 protestant denominations - because they put their reliance on the Bible alone, which it appears that is what Fr. Anthony mistakenly did too!

And it was just silly to quote Acts 2:22 as stating that Jesus was a man. I mean, that was an easy one. Fr. Anthony could have picked 100 quotes saying that Jesus was a man. We don't deny Jesus was a man. Christianity is based on that! But what Fr. Anthony failed to realize was that Jesus was both FULLY man AND fully God. And there are a list of quotes that indicate this too!

And it was that when Mary came to Elizabeth, her cousin, she said, "and who am I that the mother of my Lord should come to me". Why would she say the mother of my Lord. In what sense would she mean "Lord". Jesus never became a king on earth. And Mary was Elizabeth's cousin, which would make Jesus her second cousin by blood (or something like that). She said, "my Lord" because she knew the prophesy that Jesus was to be the Messiah, the Son of God, God made man.

"According to Abdulrahman this belief is quite convincing and appealing to every body. "

That's interesting, because the Truth really isn't "appealing". What is appealing to man is ease and assurance - the oposite of faith and endurance - which God wishes us to know.

Abdulrahman says that there is no reason for the restriction that a Roman Catholic priest cannot marry, when the priests of many other sects of Christianity can marry.

Fr. Anthony must have missed that part of the deal when he entered the Priesthood. If it was such a burden for him in the begining, then I don't understand why he didn't just find another denomination! LOL. The truth is, celibacy in the Roman Catholic priesthood isn't dogma, it is merely discapline. It is better for a Priest to be set aside for his Church rather than have his time divided with a family. All the Apostles of Jesus "gave up everything"! It seems that Fr. was simply looking for an easier life (just my observation). I mean, if he was confused about Catholicism, he didn't do any real hard searching to try and learn about the Faith!

And if he thinks that the Bible is ambiguous - then I hope that he has started reading the Qur'an... Not as a cheap shot at Islam, but I know that it is an errant work, written by a fallible person. And I think there was another person on this phorum who pointed out some true contradictios - not just ambiguous.

He happily sacrificed all material gains for the spiritual triumph.

That is a confusing line... I don't know if he interjected his own thoughts there, or if the webmaster spruced it up. But I don't really understand what "material gains" a priest could possible have compared to a Muslim layperson! A priest gives EVERYTHING for a relationship with God, including married life!

The next Catholic (some ananymos lady) that converted, from the very first paragraph, I could tell wasn't into Catholicism, or Christianity for that matter, for the right reasons ANYWAY!

And then when she said,

To learn that the ‘Trinity’ is mentioned only once in the New Testament was a surprise but when I learned it had been fully established at the Council of Nicea and that it was not part of what Jesus taught, something in my mind clicked.

I knew that she probably hadn't even read the Bible, because "Trinity" isn't mentioned AT ALL in the ENTIRE BIBLE. It isn't mentioned in the Bible. We know that! The consept of the Trinity can be derived from Scripture, but it wasn't based on Scripture! Scripture was based on the Teaching of the Church! And Trinity was based on the teaching of the Church, the Pillar and Foundation of Truth!

I won't go into detail about all the "converts", but frankly just at a glance I can tell that they didn't have a strong footbold on their belief to begin with, so what would stop them from being swayed one way or the other.

And now that they are Muslims, it isn't unlikly that they will be swayed more, one way or the other.

Sorry Ayed, I wasn't convinced by that site. The conversion stories were discouraging because I could see that they didn't really understand Christianity to begin with.

[ayed]

In the name Of Allah , the Most Compassionate, the Most Gracious

Thanks for all

Jake ! Are you upset ? I hope you are not.

Jake , I could have copied the same article from that site and pasted here. What I wanted you was to read the whole matter and express your view in one or two lines.

Never mind..everyone has hi own free will to do what he chooses.

Jake Heuther :”The Son is begotten, not made… it doesn't mean that He was made, or that He came AFTER the Father. The Father and the Son have always been that way!

1-Ayed : Who is first eternal !!The Father or the son?

Jake Hether :” the Qur'an…is an errant work, written by a fallible person”

2-Ayed , , Jake ..could you please prove what you stated?

Have my greetings,

Ayed

ayed4all@hotmail.com

[Jake Huether]

Jake ! Are you upset ? I hope you are not.

What I wanted you was to read the whole matter and express your view in one or two lines.

Ayed,

I'm not upset... Really. Sorry I came off that way. Maybe frustrated. I keep saying that we believe in ONE GOD, but you keep replying that we believe in three gods. It's like you are defining for me what I believe, which is not true. I'm telling you we believe in ONE GOD. I know what that means. And I know you know what that means. Our definition of ONE God is a bit different however, but it doesn't change the fact that it is still ONE GOD. While your god is one person and one being, our God is three persons and one being.

What I wanted you was to read the whole matter and express your view in one or two lines.

Sorry, that was the first thing I ran into on the site, and it kinda got me all fired up. So that's why I responded. It is unfortunate that people who are week in one faith convert to another before really finding out about their first faith. And I would suggest that to someone in any religion. Because the closer you look at your own religion, the more you understand it. And since Catholicism is the ONE TRUE belief, the closer you look at it, the closer you get to the truth. Other religions are a mixture of truth and lie. So the closer you look at them, the more you can see the errors.

1-Ayed : Who is first eternal !!The Father or the son?

Both are eternall! They are one God. Neither came second. It's hard for us to understand because we think of how human sons come from human fathers. But that is just an expression of how God is. We are in the image of God - not the other way around. We cannot somehow understand God FULLY by looking at his creation, because creation will always be less than creator. God from the very start (which really there was no "start", just infinity in both directions) was Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. He chose to make us in His image. That is why we are Mother, Father, child. Our definition of "begotten" is a bit different when it is applied to humans. A child is "begotten" by his father, in that the father takes part in the childs conception. But God the Son was not begotten in the same way. He is begotten only because He has a Father - but not because the Father created or made Him. We cannot rely on humans as the source of our knowledge of how God is. We can only rely on God's own revelation, which has shown us that he is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit - ONE GOD from the very begining!

That is how the water analogy fails. Because water is only all three states at it's triple point, which requires a certain temp and pressure. But God remains all three persons at the same time, while still being ONE being! Ice might have come before water, but the Son didn't come "before" the Father. He didn't come after the Father either. God is eternal and infinite in time and space (all three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit).

Jake Hether :” the Qur'an…is an errant work, written by a fallible person”

2-Ayed , , Jake ..could you please prove what you stated?

Didn't mean to offend you. I thought one of our phorum members posted a topic ont he Qur'an. Was it Cure? I'll look it up and link it...

I'd like to thank you Ayed for your respect and joy in our dialogue. It is a pleasure to talk to someone such as you.

God bless.

[Jake Huether]

Here are some links to what others have found about the Qur'an.

http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s...ic=642&hl=islam

http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s...ic=595&hl=islam

http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s...ic=576&hl=islam

http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s...ic=552&hl=islam

[Aloysius]

I wanna explain "eternally begotten" to Ayed!

i'm gonna try to do this in the form of a diagram. Ayed asked who was eternal, the Father or the Son. The answer is both

the line is a time line, notice it goes infinitely forward and backwards.

<-------------------Father--------------->

<-------------------Son------------------>

Now, the Son is "eternally beggotten" of the Father. What exactly does this mean? This means that at every single point in time, infinitely forwards and backwards, the Son is being beggotten of the Father. I will pick a couple random points to show what i mean.

The I's are sposedta be lines. At each line, the Son is being begotton.

<-------------------Father--------------->

I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I

<-----SON BEING BEGOTTON---------->

I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I

<-------------------Son------------------>

beginning to see three sections in this diagram?

every line from the Father to the Son is the Father begetting the Son. A line of begetting will thus exist between these two lines at every single point. Why does this occur? Well, God is love, i think we both agree on that, right? Well, then God must have something to love. It is in His nature. God existed always, infinitely backwards in time as well as forwards. Humans and Angels are created beings. They did not always exist. What did He love before humans and angels? His only begotten son. The Son is eternal. THe Son is thus God. He must love also. Thus He loves the Father for all eternity. And so, the reason for the Father beggetting the Son is the infinite love between the Father and the Son. God is Love, i'll say it again. Thus, Love is God. THe infinite Love between the Father and the Son is thus God.

now we see the three persons of the diagram. Every line is where the Holy Spirit exists.

<-------------------Father--------------->

I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I

<--b---b----b-------Holy Spirit-----b--b-->

I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I

<-------------------Son------------------>

i threw in the random b's which mean the son being to show that through the Holy Spirit the beggeting of the Son is accomplished. The beggetting of the Son is a result of the Holy Spirit, which is the Love of the Father and Son, which is a result of the beggetting of the Son. These b's should rightfully be at ever single point of the line, as the lines down should rightfully be at ever single point in the line, basically makeing an infinite rectangle.

All three of those lines is eternal. But more than that, all three of those lines fill up EVERYTHING in space and time. How could that be? If one thing exists in EVERYTHING, there is no more room for something else to exist in EVERYTHING. THe only way it works, is because all three of those lines are ONE. thus they form a super gigantic line which is the basis of all existence.

<-----FatherSonandHolySpirit----->

While all this seems very complicated and well thought out (i should say well prayed-out, as i formulated this through long meditation and prayer about the trinity, the other product that came out of that was the chaplet i invented devoted entirely 2 the Blessed Trinity), it does not even begin to scratch the surface of the infinite mystery of God-- The Holy Trinity

alright here i shall sum up everything i said in case u missed something.

God is Love. God must Love for it is in His nature to love. Man and angel did not always exist. God always existed, forever forward in time, and forever backward in time. Thus, as His nature is to Love, His love always begets a Son to Love. The Son is also God. They both exist in EVERYTHING in time and space and are thus ONE. The Son is God, so He must Love also, Love is in the very nature of God. Thus the Son loves the Father because of the Father's love for the son. The Son is begotten because of the Father's Love for the Son. The Love between the father and the Son is infinite. God is Love, Love is God, the Third Person. All three are completely infinite and exist everywhere in space and time, and thus are ONE.

I hope this helps ure understanding. If it seems hard to understand, i typed the whole thing up before then i tried to post and something messed up and i completely lost the message so i hadta retype it. I think the previous copy was much easier to follow. Sorry.

Pax et Amo Christi!

[Aloysius]

B) that was my little geographical attempt at explaining it. Hope it helps, Ayed!

i'm gonna use that diagram to show the importance of Mary by starting a new thread.

Pax et Amo Christi!

[Jake Huether]

Excellent analysis Aloysius!

In the case of God the Son, "begotten" simply means "fathered". The Son will always have a Father. But it doesn't mean that the Father created the Son, or that the Son came after the Father. It is simply his nature to have a Father.

Great point Aloysius. Thank you.

[Aloysius]

Hey Ayed's back..

read my above post ayed :)