Sicker And Sicker....

[1337 k4th0l1x0r]

[quote name='catholicguy' date='Jul 16 2004, 03:27 AM'] Apparently no one in the entire world had heard of him until the 70s then. What kind of statement is that? This is something supported not only by Church history but also by the Bible itself and the history of the human race! What you believe is called the "Hippie figure" of Jesus. This is the belief that He simply walked the earth preaching "peace and love" and "I'm a lover not a fighter". This kind of image is not only erroneous, but it is blasphemous. Discipline is a basic tenet of society itself. All the Saints disciplined themselves by strict physical punishments (imagine how much more a disobedient child deserves it!). The kind of nonsense "non-violent" means of achieving discipline are not only unsuccessful, but they are erroneous. It is wrong to teach children that physical force and punishment is not justice. We see this justice even for adults by the death penalty. We see this taught in the Bible "eye will go for eye and tooth for tooth". We see this throughout Church history not only by the example of the Saints upon but also by all parents until Modernism entered the Church and feminism (as well as other radical forms of liberalism) entered the world. This lack of discipline (which is caused in part by anti-corporal punishment tactics) has been one of the major causes in the downfall of society. [/quote]
I Agree with your comment on the hippie Jesus. I'm sure Jesus wasn't all flower power when He entered the Temple and let the money changers know how He felt.

I remember reading the book [u]Wild at Heart[/u] a couple years ago and it commented on how Jesus wasn't always nice. Being nice is not always being good. If I see a friend of mine committing a crime, I can be nice to him and not report him, but I'm surely not taking the good and right course of action. He used words and action to show discipline to others.

I do agree that the "Hippie Jesus" is what most people, especially non-Christians and lapsed Christians, think of Jesus. They use this to believe that Jesus would have allowed practicing homosexuals and fornicators to be disciples and that He was okay with women's ordination because, "It's a free country, man."

However, I do think that children shouldn't be abused and that non-violence should be the first course of action. As far as the death penalty and "eye for an eye," even Jesus tells us that isn't the best policy as he says "turn the other cheek." Prisoners shouldn't be executed out of punishment, but should only be executed in situations where they're a great harm to society left alive yet still imprisoned. When people really need to be disciplined, it's right, but the punishment should never be violent for the sake of being violent. There is a difference between spanking a child out of discipline and spanking a child out of violence.

Edited July 16, 2004 by 1337 k4th0l1x0r

[Azriel]

My humble opinion:

Simple swats on the butt with your hand can be necessary to keep a child away from something dangerous or threatening or to get their attention.

There most certainly non violent ways to discipline a child and done in the right way they can be very effective.

I got my share of spankings, but was never hit with anything other than my Mother's hand, and I turned out just fine. (at least I think, I did )

Just my .02.

[MC Just]

PROVERBS


23:13-14

13 Withhold not chastisement from a boy; if you beat him with the rod, he will not die.
14Beat him with the rod, and you will save him from the nether world.

[MC Just]

dont let american social services trick you.

[ironmonk]

[quote name='Azriel' date='Jul 16 2004, 10:55 AM'] My humble opinion:

Simple swats on the butt with your hand can be necessary to keep a child away from something dangerous or threatening or to get their attention.

There most certainly non violent ways to discipline a child and done in the right way they can be very effective.

I got my share of spankings, but was never hit with anything other than my Mother's hand, and I turned out just fine. (at least I think, I did )

Just my .02. [/quote]
Different kids need different tactics.

At later ages, a belt might be needed.... I got the belt a few times, I needed it... I wish I never laughed at the hand... I should have faked it... the belt... OUCH! my dad had a 44 inch leather belt.


God Bless,
ironmonk

[ironmonk]

[quote name='MC Just' date='Jul 16 2004, 11:30 AM'] PROVERBS


23:13-14

13 Withhold not chastisement from a boy; if you beat him with the rod, he will not die.
14Beat him with the rod, and you will save him from the nether world. [/quote]
Yes... girls are different than boys.

Pain is good for boys.


God Bless,
ironmonk

[BeenaBobba]

I can't honestly say that I'm shocked about the whole Britney Spears thing. Man, that girl seems to be going on a downward spiral, and it's really sad.

God bless,

Jen

[1337 k4th0l1x0r]

[quote name='BeenaBobba' date='Jul 16 2004, 10:04 AM'] I can't honestly say that I'm shocked about the whole Britney Spears thing. Man, that girl seems to be going on a downward spiral, and it's really sad.

God bless,

Jen [/quote]
Yeah, it seems like since all the stuff came out about her and Justin Timberlake and their break-up, she's decided to just go all out on lowering her moral standards and showing it.

[BeenaBobba]

As for spanking a child, I don't have a problem with it. The goal, of course, is to hurt the child's pride and make it clear that he or she has done wrong. If I ever spank my future kids, I'll be sure not to do it when angry. I won't hit hard, either. There's a line between punishment and abuse, and it mustn't be crossed. Hitting hard enough to leave a mark, drawing blood, or knocking the wind out of a child is surely child abuse -- and I find that reprehensible. IMO, punching and kicking a child is always wrong. Whipping a kid with a belt or a stick is going too far, I think, in that this would almost always leave welts.

Do any of you think it's okay to hit your wives? I hope not.

God bless,

Jen

[BeenaBobba]

[quote name='1337 k4th0l1x0r' date='Jul 16 2004, 12:12 PM'] Yeah, it seems like since all the stuff came out about her and Justin Timberlake and their break-up, she's decided to just go all out on lowering her moral standards and showing it. [/quote]
I've noticed that as well, but I don't wanna gossip about Ms. Spears. I just feel bad for her. I feel bad for anyone who thinks they have to dress like a skank or French kiss a middle aged women to sell albums. I wish she knew she was worth so much more than that.

God bless,

Jen

[BeenaBobba]

[quote name='conservativecatholic' date='Jul 15 2004, 11:55 PM'] Alexander Tyler, (in his 1770 book, 'Cycle of Democracy' )

"...The average of the world's great civilizations before they decline has been 200 years. These nations have progressed in this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to great courage; from courage to liberty; from liberty to abundance; from abundance to selfishness; from selfishness to
complacency; from complacency to apathy; from apathy to dependency; from dependency back again to bondage."

What's next for the USA?? [/quote]
That's a great quote! I think we're somewhere in the latter stages, unfortunately. What's next? Legalized (child) prostitution, infanticide, murder of the infirm, etc.

God bless,

Jen

[Azriel]

[quote name='BeenaBobba' date='Jul 16 2004, 10:16 AM'] As for spanking a child, I don't have a problem with it. The goal, of course, is to hurt the child's pride and make it clear that he or she has done wrong. If I ever spank my future kids, I'll be sure not to do it when angry. I won't hit hard, either. There's a line between punishment and abuse, and it mustn't be crossed. Hitting hard enough to leave a mark, drawing blood, or knocking the wind out of a child is surely child abuse -- and I find that reprehensible. IMO, punching and kicking a child is always wrong. Whipping a kid with a belt or a stick is going too far, I think, in that this would almost always leave welts.

Do any of you think it's okay to hit your wives? I hope not.

God bless,

Jen [/quote]
Excellent post.

On a side note ... my Grandfather (may he rest in peace) used to make his kids go out and cut their own switch. One time my uncle came back in the house with a board with nails in it.

My Grandpa laughed so hard my uncle never did get whipped.

[ironmonk]

[quote name='BeenaBobba' date='Jul 16 2004, 12:16 PM'] As for spanking a child, I don't have a problem with it.  The goal, of course, is to hurt the child's pride and make it clear that he or she has done wrong.  If I ever spank my future kids, I'll be sure not to do it when angry.  I won't hit hard, either.  There's a line between punishment and abuse, and it mustn't be crossed.  Hitting hard enough to leave a mark, drawing blood, or knocking the wind out of a child is surely child abuse -- and I find that reprehensible.  IMO, punching and kicking a child is always wrong.  Whipping a kid with a belt or a stick is going too far, I think, in that this would almost always leave welts.

Do any of you think it's okay to hit your wives?  I hope not. 

God bless,

Jen [/quote]
Using a belt does not go to far. It's the same precept as a paddle... The Catholic Church schools have used paddles for years... The Catholic Church sees paddles and belts as acceptable.

When I was a kid I needed a belt or paddle. Not all kids need it.

A little pain on the butt shows a kid that there are real consequences to his actions. Growing up many kids do good so not to get the punishment and then, when older they know right from wrong and they do good to do good. A child's choices will program their actions in the future. Discipline them with what is needed as a child and they will grow up to be good adults.

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HITTING A WIFE! DO NOT MAKE IT OUT TO BE SOMETHING IT'S NOT! ARE YOU WISER THAN THE CHURCH?!

Edited July 16, 2004 by ironmonk

[Lil Red]

i think there's a difference between swatting your child and spanking your child. my parents raised 9 kids (but had 10). we were all spanked. i once saw my dad spank my brother when he was 14 or 15. do you think that's right?! i don't. with the exception of one of my brothers, all of us have tempers and have trouble controlling our tempers, all of us hit each other (or others) as a form of affection (which is twisted). do you know why? i think it's because we were taught that when something upset you, you hit. AND MY DAD NEVER SPANKED WHEN HE WAS ANGRY. When you wanted to show affection, you punched or slapped. i was afraid of my father for many years; and not until i moved out of my parents' home did i feel comfortable standing up to him.

will i swat my kids (when i have them)? probably. will i spank them? never.

[BeenaBobba]

[quote name='ironmonk' date='Jul 16 2004, 12:45 PM'] Using a belt does not go to far. It's the same precept as a paddle... The Catholic Church schools have used paddles for years... The Catholic Church sees paddles and belts as acceptable.
[/quote]
I'm not aware of any infallible Church document saying that the belt or paddle is an acceptable weapon of corporal punishment. Do you know of any?

Do a search on corporal punishment at the EWTN website. The forum experts have said that Catholic school teachers have gone too far in the past -- and that there were indeed excesses and abuses.

[quote]THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HITTING A WIFE! DO NOT MAKE IT OUT TO BE SOMETHING IT'S NOT! ARE YOU WISER THAN THE CHURCH?![/quote]

Relax. It was just an honest question. I don't think I'm wiser than the Church, no, but I don't recall the Church ever having said that beating a kid with a belt is okay.

God bless,

Jen

P.S. I actually don't have much of a problem with corporal punishment by a paddle. Hitting a child with a paddle is more or less the same as spanking them with a hand. Of course, this can be taken too far. Belts, on the other hand, almost always leave welts. How could anyone say that leaving stripes on a child's back wouldn't be child abuse?