IS IT ADVISABLE TO TAKE A THIRD PERSON AS AN EX-VOTO FOR A PROMISE?

[Alberto Guimaraes]

In 1980, a female cousin and comadre of mine underwent surgery, and I promised, if everything went well:

At that time, I still owed a promise from my military service to go barefoot in the procession for the feast of Our Lady of Health, to whom I am very devoted.

Due to the success of the operation my cousin underwent, I promised to take one of her daughters, my goddaughter, who was 13 years old at the time, with me, and she would also go barefoot.

But I only told her the purpose of taking her with me when we were already at church, and when the girl found out that she had to go barefoot she cried a lot, and only took off her sandals when the procession was about to leave and I warned her that, if she didn't take off her sandals, we would have to come back there the following year to repeat the fulfillment of the promise.

Anyway, it wasn't the only case in which I've seen someone accompany someone else based on their promise.

But everything worked out.

I had offered him a rosary and we prayed during the procession.

I just told her that she had behaved very well, but that she shouldn't say anything at home, because "don't let your left hand know what your right hand is doing"...

We just revealed the incident to the mother about 12 years later, and then we even laughed at her childishness!

 

[Didacus]

I see good intent, but maybe a heads-up to her would have been in order.

 

For myself, when I offer up devotions that involve others - I kinda 'write in' a back-up plan, so for instance, if she wouldn't want to come with me I would for example do it twice.

 

I think you had very good intent in teh sense of not only performing a devotion but also teaching this devotion which is excellent, so for this well done.  If you would have asked her, and she refused then said OK then, I'll do it twice, once for each our behalfs - that would have given a strong example as well.

 

Chers, and keep the faith!

[Alberto Guimaraes]

PEACE AND GOOD!

Thanks your kind words!

Jesus, Mary and Francis keep you and bless you!

Br. Alberto

[Hna.Caridad]

OK, I can't figure out your question.

 

You made a "promise" to take away another person's free will by forcing/shaming her into performing your personal devotion/promise.  Guess what:  you don't get "credit" for a devotion that you don't do.  Her behavior at the time wasn't "childish", but yours was--no, actually, your behavior was abusive.  What you did was a manipulative act of spiritual abuse and possibly (depending on the conditions of the road) physical abuse against a minor.

 

You knew that you were wrong at the time, which is why you swore her to secrecy.  You know that you're still wrong, which is why you're turning to an anonymous message board for some kind of reassurance or absolution of your behavior. 

 

It doesn't surprise me that she would "laugh" when you continue to shame her all of these years later--she learned a long time ago that the best way to stay safe around you is to diminish herself.  

 

To all of those Catholic women out there:  this is what "red flags" look like.  Learn to recognize them so that you can protect yourself and protect your children.

[Didacus]

DO try and see the good in people will ya Hna...  ISn't it the first thing we should do?

[Alberto Guimaraes]

17 hours ago, Hna.Caridad said:

"You made a "promise" to take away another person's free will by forcing/shaming her into performing your personal devotion/promise." 

PEACE AND GOOD! I was confident that she would react well because years ago she had already participated, portrayed as Saint Lucy, in another procession, by a promise of her grandmother.

"Guess what:  you don't get "credit" for a devotion that you don't do.  Her behavior at the time wasn't "childish", but yours was--no, actually, your behavior was abusive.  What you did was a manipulative act of spiritual abuse and possibly (depending on the conditions of the road) physical abuse against a minor."

I didn't want to humiliate or hurt her in any way, because through our interactions I always realized that she wasn't afraid or embarrassed to walk barefoot.

"You knew that you were wrong at the time, which is why you swore her to secrecy.  You know that you're still wrong, which is why you're turning to an anonymous message board for some kind of reassurance or absolution of your behavior. "

I didn't feel that I was wrong, but I didn't think it was appropriate, at the time, to say everything that happened: telling her that I would go barefoot, her negative reaction, etc. Couldn't they possibly think that I wanted to commit a pedophilic act? We limited ourselves to saying that we followed the procession praying the rosary. I accept your opinion that I would be wrong, but as for looking for this forum, which for me is not anonymous, and I even use my real baptismal name, as I was going to say, I did not look for it to obtain absolution, because I already received it from a confessor, a long time ago. At that time, 1980, despite having already been an acolyte, prepared with the necessary religious culture, when I interrupted this activity, having served in the military in Mozambique, where I lived with Hindus and Muslims, led me to embrace a certain religious syncretism, and perhaps an empirical Catholicism, like that of the majority of the faithful at the time, and hence the fact that I made and kept some promises. At that time I was not yet a Franciscan, I had not joined the OFS, and as such I still made certain mistakes.

"It doesn't surprise me that she would "laugh" when you continue to shame her all of these years later--she learned a long time ago that the best way to stay safe around you is to diminish herself."

Why shouldn't we laugh, 45 years later? I'm just a poor godfather, with few services, but I feel like she is my daughter!

"To all of those Catholic women out there:  this is what "red flags" look like.  Learn to recognize them so that you can protect yourself and protect your children."

My men (meaning sons) are already adults, some are fathers of children, and therefore I am already a grandfather of grandsons and granddaughters. Not just for that. I tell you: when I came back from Mozambique it took just a few hours for me to leave the Army, but 50 years still weren't enough for the Army to leave me!

Blessings!

Br. Alberto

 

I see good intent, but maybe a heads-up to her would have been in order.

 

For myself, when I offer up devotions that involve others - I kinda 'write in' a back-up plan, so for instance, if she wouldn't want to come with me I would for example do it twice.

 

I think you had very good intent in teh sense of not only performing a devotion but also teaching this devotion which is excellent, so for this well done.  If you would have asked her, and she refused then said OK then, I'll do it twice, once for each our behalfs - that would have given a strong example as well.

 

Chers, and keep the faith!

PEACE AND GOOD, and thank you for your words! I hope that this question of mine (?) and the answers and opinions of the brothers who comment on it serve as clarification for whoever reads this topic. Blessings!