What do you do when the idea of "having a relationship with Christ" just isn't appealing?

[Lady Grey, Hot]

On 12/7/2023 at 10:14 AM, chrysostom said:

Why is existence, or existing, not good?

Because the relatively more desirable parts of existing will never outweigh the undesirable parts. When weighed against the prospect of not having to exist at all, what God offers simply isn't that good. So far as I can tell, Heaven is only appealing because it is not Hell. I would not suffer there, but I also have no expectation of anything better than simply failing to suffer - I simply can't believe that deep, abiding joy exists for me even there. And that's the best of all possible worlds, admission to which I will probably not achieve. Yes, if I didn't exist, I would miss out on some minorly pleasing or joyful things - but, not existing, presumably I wouldn't know I was missing out on them, and I also wouldn't have the very probable risk of excruciating, unfathomable, unending pain dangling over my head.

I question the goodness and mercy of a God who would put me in that position - who would create me just to condemn me to, at best, a life of not unpleasant (but also not truly pleasant) numbness, who doesn't want me to ever have the relief of getting to be done. 

[Anomaly]

20 hours ago, Lady Grey, Hot said:

Because the relatively more desirable parts of existing will never outweigh the undesirable parts. When weighed against the prospect of not having to exist at all, what God offers simply isn't that good. So far as I can tell, Heaven is only appealing because it is not Hell. I would not suffer there, but I also have no expectation of anything better than simply failing to suffer - I simply can't believe that deep, abiding joy exists for me even there. And that's the best of all possible worlds, admission to which I will probably not achieve. Yes, if I didn't exist, I would miss out on some minorly pleasing or joyful things - but, not existing, presumably I wouldn't know I was missing out on them, and I also wouldn't have the very probable risk of excruciating, unfathomable, unending pain dangling over my head.

I question the goodness and mercy of a God who would put me in that position - who would create me just to condemn me to, at best, a life of not unpleasant (but also not truly pleasant) numbness, who doesn't want me to ever have the relief of getting to be done. 

That’s more of a  philosophical question than religious.  
Although it appears easy to mess up and become “condemned”, it’s also very easy to ask and receive forgiveness.  In my opinion, the difficulties to forgiveness are mostly human manipulations to keep people from being lazy or duplicitous about good behavior.

Being good in this life just for goodness sake is its own reward, and not really likely to piss off God.  At the least, most fellow humans would appreciate it. 

[fides' Jack]

This is worth listening to.  It's the copied down vision or dream of a letter written from a soul in hell (presumably), from a nun.  It has received a bishop's imprimatur.  It's worth listening to the whole thing, but if you want to skip to the letter, it starts around 7:30.  

I bring this up because there are many parallels in the words you have said on here and the letter.  

I sincerely hope you can find God's love and mercy, and I pray God will let you experience the sweetness of His love so that you might change your mind.

God be with you and save you.

 

 

[Lady Grey, Hot]

9 hours ago, fides' Jack said:

I pray God will let you experience the sweetness of His love so that you might change your mind.

I think what I fear is that I already have - and I've simply been underwhelmed. (Edit to add: "experience[d] the sweetness of His love")

Edited December 15, 2023 by Lady Grey, Hot

[Anomaly]

9 hours ago, Lady Grey, Hot said:

I think what I fear is that I already have - and I've simply been underwhelmed. (Edit to add: "experience[d] the sweetness of His love")

I’ve been raised in a practicing Catholic culture and community.   They are not the “got the sacraments, see you at Christmas “ type.   I know several current priests since we were kids, or since they were seminarians.   I’ve had great conversation with some during my struggles.  
Myself and my siblings all had 12 years of Catholic education.  My family members have always been involved in parish and parochial school life and have a number of family friends that are nuns and priests.  I’m not an outsider.  
 

There is no such thing as Buddy God, to have a friend relationship with, that chats and responds on a human level.  If there is a God that pays attention to you (you’re one entity out of zillions of billions that exist now, in the past, or in the future), that would make you one very special entity.  
 

Philosophically if God is Intentional Love that created this universe/reality, then He isn’t necessarily going to have a personal entity to entity relationship with Lady Grey.   That is your want, but is it your need?   Think about it.   
Have a relationship with “God” in the love you give to your neighbors, family, friends.  That’s the personal relationship, however you perceive it and extrapolate from there.    The Catholic Church, like most religions, is really intended to help humans be good for themselves and human society.   If you get to heaven later, that’s a bonus, but should not be the only reason to be good in this life.   Being good for your just rewards later, is really just selfishness.  
I know many good people, some that are Catholic.   It’s not just following religion rules that make you a joy to others.  
 

I wish you well as you work things out.   May you find peace.  

Edited December 15, 2023 by Anomaly