What do you do when the idea of "having a relationship with Christ" just isn't appealing?

[Lady Grey, Hot]

I've been struggling with a general unease/distress about the faith for somewhere between one and two years, and while there are some surface issues that I could point to, after spending so long constantly brooding and turning it over in my head and hashing it out in therapy, I've come to realize that when it comes right down to it, the problem is simply that I don't desire a relationship with God. That's supposed to be the impetus for everything, and I simply. don't. want it. I don't want to be around Him. I don't want to talk to Him. His love is not attractive or satisfying or fulfilling. There's no good reason to pursue it, except that I don't want to suffer eternally - and since never having been created would also result in me not suffering eternally (or existing eternally - Heaven's obviously the better alternative, but I'm not sure it trumps just not having to be), it's hard not to think that God didn't create me just to coerce me. So far as I can tell, there's no value added to this life through a personal relationship with Christ - if the relationship were not there, the good things would still be good, and my biggest source of pain would be gone.

For most of my life, Catholicism was simply a duty. I fulfilled the requirements because I was obliged to, and then I just lived my life (albeit with an internalized sense of how I should conduct myself based on Church teaching). I wish I could go back to that. I'm tired of being disappointed. I'm tired of trying to be grateful for and awed by a love I don't desire and which does nothing for me.

[bardegaulois]

I'm sorry to hear that that you are experiencing such a difficult and intimate battle with your beliefs. You appear to be debating important spiritual and existential issues. In their spiritual journeys, many people—even the most faithful—have moments of uncertainty and questioning.

I've personally been there and done that. It was not an easy period. However, we always have a bigger picture to look at, though, in the throes of these periods of questioning, we really cannot see this. If God is Who He says He is, then He continues to seek us out. And if He is omniscient, then He knows that what we know of Him, think of Him, etc., just isn't sufficing to the way that we see it. And if He is far greater than we can conceive, then in no way can we ever see the full picture of His nature and His work. So, how do you see these things? I know for a spell, what I thought God wanted of me left me with a profound distaste to the point that I had little patience with the way I had previously thought about Him, and so I stopped thinking about Him and just focused on living the life set in front of me. Then situations changed, and not only did I understand that there were matters that had always been below the surface that needed addressing, but God presented Himself very subtly again in a manner directly correlated to resolving these matters and very different from what I had thought in the past. However, my full reconciliation with what He desired has been a long (by which I mean about a decade long) process, and likely still isn't complete. However, if my period of having no real desire in the more personal elements of the faith were not there, then I'd likely never have begun this process.

So please understand that your emotions are real and likely, in many ways, understandable. What helped me through that period was a deeper engagement with literature and philosophy, delving into the more existential aspects of faith and of the human condition. It's always good to know that you're not the first person who has wrestled with these or comparable questions. Maybe in your reading you can come upon some viewpoints that can connect with your present challenges.

Just hang in there for now. You might find it very difficult to pray in this period; I know I did. But be assured that others, like all of us who read this, will pray for you.

[Anomaly]

@Lady Grey, Hot we are all different personalities and psyches.   My advice for you is don’t turn away from the comfort of what you see as “good”.   Perhaps that may lead you back to “God” in a van manner that relates to who you are.  Be open, don’t force or expect.  I wish you well.  

[Lady Grey, Hot]

@bardegaulois Thanks for your post! You're a little over my head in spots, so I hope you don't mind if I interrogate it a little further:

On 11/23/2023 at 6:53 PM, bardegaulois said:

And if He is omniscient, then He knows that what we know of Him, think of Him, etc., just isn't sufficing to the way that we see it.

I don't quite understand what this sentence is getting at. He knows that, as I see it, He doesn't measure up to my expectations?

On 11/23/2023 at 6:53 PM, bardegaulois said:

So, how do you see these things?

Are you asking me to consider my thoughts on God's identity, omniscience, and greatness? Or is this a rhetorical question - how do I know/presume to know the full scope of these things? (I don't, obviously.)

On 11/23/2023 at 6:53 PM, bardegaulois said:

so I stopped thinking about Him and just focused on living the life set in front of me.

So would you say this is an acceptable solution to riding out such a period? Or did you find it did more harm than good? (In any event, presumably one is not, for example, excused from praying under circumstances like this.)

On 11/23/2023 at 6:53 PM, bardegaulois said:

What helped me through that period was a deeper engagement with literature and philosophy, delving into the more existential aspects of faith and of the human condition.

I appreciate the suggestion, though I think in my case it would do more harm than good. The more I read, the direr my predicament seems and the more distressed I become.

[GraceUk]

I think you just need to say look this is all beyond me at the moment and leave it at that. But don't keep worrying  about it. I have a niggling worry that no I don't want to suffer. I hate pain. And many of the saints have suffered willingly That causes me problems sometimes but I expect God knows how I feel anyway. 

[fides' Jack]

Sounds like satan is alive and well, as one might expect, throughout the world at this time.  

On 11/22/2023 at 1:19 PM, Lady Grey, Hot said:

So far as I can tell, there's no value added to this life through a personal relationship with Christ

There certainly can be.  But not everyone is called to have a good life, and especially not through a personal relationship with Christ.  His followers embrace suffering (or at least try to).  He said, "pick up your cross and follow Me" - not "you're going to feel really good if you love Me".  

So yeah, if the end goal is the concerns of this life, you're not going to want that personal relationship with Him.  And if you don't want it with Him now, you're not going to want it with Him for all eternity, and He's not going to force Himself on you.  

But it sounds like you already know that.

On 11/22/2023 at 1:19 PM, Lady Grey, Hot said:

if the relationship were not there, the good things would still be good, and my biggest source of pain would be gone.

That makes it sound like your biggest source of pain is the guilt you feel about your sinful life, and the only good things that you experience are worldly things.  

But all good comes from God, including good worldly things.  I think if the relationship were not there, the good things would suddenly become mediocre, at best.  They would lose their flavor and/or pleasurableness.  And the pain would likely only increase.  (Although, it's a fair point that God sometimes allows people to have a wonderful life because He knows they are going to Hell so He allows them to experience more joy and happiness on Earth before they are doomed eternally.)

That's sad, and it makes me contemplate my own life, and how many graces I've received.  I think if you were in my shoes, and had as many graces as I've had, you'd be much holier than I hope to be.  And if I were in your shoes, I'd probably already have given up the fight and despaired and apostatized.

So let me ask you - do you want to desire a closer relationship with God?  Or do you want to completely lose the desire for a closer relationship with God?

If you at least want a holier desire, then God has something to work with.

Don't give up on Him yet.  He can and will take away your pain, even in dramatic ways, if it's for your spiritual good.

[chrysostom]

On 11/22/2023 at 3:19 PM, Lady Grey, Hot said:

It's hard not to think that God didn't create me just to coerce me.

Catholic teaching: you 100% have free will. No ambiguity there.

Quote

a love I don't desire and which does nothing for me.

God (and his Love) causes us to exist in the first place. That's just for starters, but even that isn't "does nothing".

Any idea of goodness you have is an idea which leads back to Him.

What would God have to do for you for you to say "His love did something for me?"

[tinytherese]

I sometimes struggle with how I view The Lord too. Devin Schadt addresses it in his book "The Imposter: How Your Perception of God Can Determine Your Eternity". Like in Genesis, the devil claimins that God is a killjoy who's holding out on us. Eat the fruit He forbids us from having. That stuff is great. He doesn't truly love you. In reality, the devil is describing himself. God is generous, merciful, and wants the very best for us. Sin won't fulfill us.

"I Believe in Love" by Father Jean C.J. d'Elbee is another good resource.

Even simply asking in prayer, "Lord, open my eyes to who you really are," and waiting for Him to answer may be all that you need.

 

[Lady Grey, Hot]

11 minutes ago, tinytherese said:

Even simply asking in prayer, "Lord, open my eyes to who you really are," and waiting for Him to answer may be all that you need.

 

I'm pretty sure the answer will devastate me.

[Lady Grey, Hot]

On 11/27/2023 at 11:15 PM, fides' Jack said:

And if you don't want it with Him now, you're not going to want it with Him for all eternity

Will it still be painful when I don't have it, then?

On 11/27/2023 at 11:15 PM, fides' Jack said:

So let me ask you - do you want to desire a closer relationship with God?  Or do you want to completely lose the desire for a closer relationship with God?

 

I'm not 100% sure. First and foremost I want a relationship with God to actually be a desirable thing (which it is not). And since it is inevitably not, a great deal of me wishes I could dispose of it entirely and live a life that, by a standard other than God's (i.e. mine), would be happy and fulfilling - something which can only happen without the significant pain Catholicism causes me. Then again, concern for my immortal soul means I find myself unable to write God off entirely - I can never convince that final .1% of myself that making a clean break is the right thing to do. I wish I could convince myself of that, but thus far I haven't been able to.

On 12/3/2023 at 10:27 PM, chrysostom said:

God (and his Love) causes us to exist in the first place. That's just for starters, but even that isn't "does nothing".

I guess it "does something" if existing is a good thing - and I don't think it is. Best to not have been created in the first place - if God actually loved me, I can't help but think He would have gone that route and spared me the pain of existence.

[chrysostom]

11 hours ago, Lady Grey, Hot said:

if existing is a good thing - and I don't think it is

Why is existence, or existing, not good?

Edited December 7, 2023 by chrysostom

[Anomaly]

12 hours ago, Lady Grey, Hot said:

Will it still be painful when I don't have it, then?

I'm not 100% sure. First and foremost I want a relationship with God to actually be a desirable thing (which it is not). And since it is inevitably not, a great deal of me wishes I could dispose of it entirely and live a life that, by a standard other than God's (i.e. mine), would be happy and fulfilling - something which can only happen without the significant pain Catholicism causes me. Then again, concern for my immortal soul means I find myself unable to write God off entirely - I can never convince that final .1% of myself that making a clean break is the right thing to do. I wish I could convince myself of that, but thus far I haven't been able to.

I guess it "does something" if existing is a good thing - and I don't think it is. Best to not have been created in the first place - if God actually loved me, I can't help but think He would have gone that route and spared me the pain of existence.

Your quandary is similar to my own, and why I have been an ex-Catholic and proclaimed atheist for about a decade because I made the break.  
I wish you well as you seek peace for yourself.   
I’ve never closed the door, just walked to the other side.  
Lately, I’ve been looking back.   Maybe  my fundamental understanding of God isn’t necessarily who or what others say he is.   There are lots of Catholic, Christian, other religions, and philosophers that to this day ponder this question.   I’ve been asking these questions for decades. You’re asking questions that most rarely do, and there are many different answers.  

[dUSt]

6 hours ago, Anomaly said:

Your quandary is similar to my own, and why I have been an ex-Catholic and proclaimed atheist for about a decade because I made the break.  
I wish you well as you seek peace for yourself.   
I’ve never closed the door, just walked to the other side.  
Lately, I’ve been looking back.   Maybe  my fundamental understanding of God isn’t necessarily who or what others say he is.   There are lots of Catholic, Christian, other religions, and philosophers that to this day ponder this question.   I’ve been asking these questions for decades. You’re asking questions that most rarely do, and there are many different answers.  

To me, you'll always be the jasJis who gave us Preaching Holy Apostolic Truth.

[Anomaly]

14 hours ago, dUSt said:

To me, you'll always be the jasJis who gave us Preaching Holy Apostolic Truth.

That was so much life ago.    And yet I still visit regularly.  How many years ago was that?

[dUSt]

1 hour ago, Anomaly said:

That was so much life ago.    And yet I still visit regularly.  How many years ago was that?

Like 5 or 6