“We are at war.”

[Anastasia13]

On 10/11/2023 at 7:20 AM, Didacus said:

I am on the side of peace - always.

But if asked to take a side between Israel or Palestine, very sorry, but my take is;

Not my fight...

Our fight is not against the powers of this world, and there is no perfect side in a human war. Praying “Lord have mercy” is the best side any of us can take. I’ve known wrong happenings on both sides, Israelis being victims and victomizing even Christians outside of Palestine and breaking their word in governance. Hamas does not represent all Palestinians and has conducted terrorism. It’s a huge mess. I fear how much we will get pulled into a messy way and call it clear cut and easy.

On 10/23/2023 at 6:49 AM, Didacus said:

Mohamadeens have not been very nice to Christians either.

One or the other - not my fight, not my monkeys.  I am not picking a side on this one.

It’s in the last century that the Christian population of Lebanon has gone down. The centuries before, not quite as bad. There is more to the story.

10 hours ago, little2add said:

 

People on both sides feel that way. We need more prayer, not more bombs.

[little2add]

'War Begets War, Violence Begets Violence'

 

[Anomaly]

In this current phase of a many decades long conflict, the bottom line is if Israel had the right to exist as a Jewish nation.    
 

If yes, then Hamas must stop preaching the elimination of Jews.  
Palestine can only be an autonomous State if they and the surrounding Arab nations can agree on that point.  
Israel.  More than 15% of Israel’s population is Palestinian  living there peacefully. 
 

What would you do if your next door neighbors constantly threatened you and shot your windows out?   What if the police said they have no legal method to arrest your neighbor?

When do you cross the fence to confront your neighbor?    What would that confrontation consist of, keeping in mind you and your neighbors have children living there?

[fides' Jack]

On 11/8/2023 at 7:28 AM, Anomaly said:

If yes, then Hamas must stop preaching the elimination of Jews.  

No matter what, Hamas must stop preaching the elimination of Jews.

[Anomaly]

47 minutes ago, fides' Jack said:

No matter what, Hamas must stop preaching the elimination of Jews.

No, not “no matter what”.

Israel cannot defend themselves with any action, “no matter what” either.   

Israel’s options are limited because Hamas cares as little about the Palestinians, as they do the Jewish people.  Civilian Palestinian deaths serves Hamas just as validly as Israeli deaths.  
 

I know you really didn’t mean Israel could do whatever it wants because of the Hamas attacks and Hamas still has to shut up, but there is dangerous backlash when either side is admonished with a “no matter what”.   
 

An excellent thought provoking article here, if you can handle some vulgarity.   
jamesfell.substack.com/p/your-antisemitism-is-showing.    
I am interested in yours, or any other’s thoughts   

 

[KnightofChrist]

When and where is the next opening phase to WWIII : East vs West?

Just as Ukraine seemed to be winding down. Boom, Israel vs Palestine. What's next?

When do all the proxy wars, forever wars become actual and direct?

It's all rather insane. The World has gone mad.

 

[Machine_Washable]

On 11/8/2023 at 9:28 AM, Anomaly said:

In this current phase of a many decades long conflict, the bottom line is if Israel had the right to exist as a Jewish nation.    
 

If yes, then Hamas must stop preaching the elimination of Jews.  
Palestine can only be an autonomous State if they and the surrounding Arab nations can agree on that point.  
Israel.  More than 15% of Israel’s population is Palestinian  living there peacefully. 
 

What would you do if your next door neighbors constantly threatened you and shot your windows out?   What if the police said they have no legal method to arrest your neighbor?

When do you cross the fence to confront your neighbor?    What would that confrontation consist of, keeping in mind you and your neighbors have children living there?

Hamas has never called for the elimination of all Jews. This is an extrapolation that zionaists make from a hadith that they cite in their charter about the end times. No Musim group can call for the elimination of Jews because they are ahl al-kitāb. Muslims can fight them but if they surrender then they are dhimmis which is a covenant with the Muslim ruler. A Muslim ruler is required by the sharia to protect the life and rights of dhimmis. 

 

Protection from Outside Aggression

The non-Muslims and Muslims have equal rights in this connection: the imam, by virtue of the executive and military power granted him by the Islamic shari‘ah, should provide protection for all of them. It is stated in the Hanbali book of figh, Matalib Ula An-Nuha:

'The ruler of the Muslim community is bound to protect the non-Muslims and to save them from aggression. Should they fall into captivity, the imam must marshal all the resources to secure their release and punish the transgressors against their lives and properties, even if they were the sole (non-Muslims) living in a remote village.'

In his book Al-Furugq, Imam Al-Qarafi al-Malaki, quoting from Maratib Al-lima‘ by Ibn Hazm, states:

'Muslims who have entered into a pact of dhimma, should fight until death with those who try to oppress non-Muslims in the Islamic state in order to abide by the guarantee given to them by Almighty Allah, His messenger, upon whom be peace. Otherwise they will be considered as traitors.'

That is from Yūsuf al-Qaraḍāwī's Non Musims in the Islamic Society. Yūsuf al-Qaraḍāwī was a prominent scholar of the Muslim Brotherhood which is connected to Hamas. I am not a scholar but I think a call to eliminate all Jews would make one an apostate. 

The Hamas charter does contain antisemitism in it. That is wrong. But you should also consider that 2 of the 3 founding members of Hamas were children when the Israelis massacred much of their villages. For example, Ibrahim Yazuri survived two different attacks by the Israeli army in the 50s including one where all the men in his village age older than 15 were lined up an shot. So when we consider the impact of the Holocaust on Israeli actions we should grant the same consideration to palestinians who were the victims of Israeli ethnic cleansing. 

 

On 11/9/2023 at 1:00 PM, fides' Jack said:

No matter what, Hamas must stop preaching the elimination of Jews.

They amended their charter in 2017 to distinguish between Jews and Zionists.

On 11/9/2023 at 2:00 PM, Anomaly said:

No, not “no matter what”.

Israel cannot defend themselves with any action, “no matter what” either.   

Israel’s options are limited because Hamas cares as little about the Palestinians, as they do the Jewish people.  Civilian Palestinian deaths serves Hamas just as validly as Israeli deaths.  
 

I know you really didn’t mean Israel could do whatever it wants because of the Hamas attacks and Hamas still has to shut up, but there is dangerous backlash when either side is admonished with a “no matter what”.   
 

An excellent thought provoking article here, if you can handle some vulgarity.   
jamesfell.substack.com/p/your-antisemitism-is-showing.    
I am interested in yours, or any other’s thoughts   

 

Israel has killed over 10,000 Palestinians in the last month. Most of them civilians. It has displaced 1.7 million Palestinians. North Gaza is rubble. I don't know if you are aware of how brutal Israel has been towards the Palestinians. I read part of the substack. I found it difficult to finish because it is extremely ignorant. The Saudi's actions in Yemen were cursed by every Muslim I know. Syria was a ralling cry for the ummah for years and years. 

This man is a fool if he thinks that this will eliminate Hamas. He's as much of a fool as the Israeli's were when they lined up the boys and men of Ibrahim Yazuri's village and shot them all when he was 15 years old in the 1950s. 

"Self-defense of a nation is a legal right under international law, and yet even before Israel reacted there were rallies and social media chatter supporting Palestinians. Again, in the wake of the deadliest day for Jewish people since the Holocaust, and before Israel had launched any counterattack, thousands of people took to the streets to show support for those that the October 7 attack was allegedly done on behalf of."

Let me ask you a question. Do the Palestinians have a right to defend themselves? Or do they only have a right to watch settlers in the West Bank gobble up their land and endure Israeli campaigns of "mowing the grass" in Gaza every few years?

 

On 11/9/2023 at 10:05 PM, KnightofChrist said:

When and where is the next opening phase to WWIII : East vs West?

Just as Ukraine seemed to be winding down. Boom, Israel vs Palestine. What's next?

When do all the proxy wars, forever wars become actual and direct?

It's all rather insane. The World has gone mad.

 

Muhammad bin Salman wants to normalize relations with Israel. Turkey and Iran have proven they won't do anything beyond words. I don't think there will be a spread of the conflict now. 

Edited November 13, 2023 by Machine_Washable

[KnightofChrist]

2 hours ago, Machine_Washable said:

Muhammad bin Salman wants to normalize relations with Israel. Turkey and Iran have proven they won't do anything beyond words. I don't think there will be a spread of the conflict now. 

Proxies of Iran and others have been struck US bases in the region since Oct. 17. US has return fire with fire. Various US officials have threatened to strike Iran. While I hope you are correct, I have doubts.

Even so, overall the next phase may somewhere completely different. Korea, Taiwan, or somewhere unexpected.

[dUSt]

8 hours ago, Machine_Washable said:

They amended their charter in 2017 to distinguish between Jews and Zionists

Oh, ok, so they only want to eliminate all the Jews in Israel who believe in a Jewish state. They'll leave all the Jews who don't want a Jewish state alone? How many Jews in Israel do not want a Jewish state?

[Machine_Washable]

5 hours ago, dUSt said:

Oh, ok, so they only want to eliminate all the Jews in Israel who believe in a Jewish state. They'll leave all the Jews who don't want a Jewish state alone? How many Jews in Israel do not want a Jewish state?

I was not clear. Their amended charter does a better job of removing antisemitism and distinguishing between Jewish people and Zionist forces and powers in the region. That is all I was trying to say. I did not say Hamas wants to eliminate all zionists from the region. They have indicated the would be willing to accept a truce with Israel. In none of these instances do they recognize Israel as a state. 
 

Hamas has no power to destroy Israel. They have light weapons and RPGs that they make themselves. Hamas can cost Israel if they have to fight in the tunnels. But they have no ability to seriously damage Israel’s military from offensive operations. 

11 hours ago, KnightofChrist said:

Proxies of Iran and others have been struck US bases in the region since Oct. 17. US has return fire with fire. Various US officials have threatened to strike Iran. While I hope you are correct, I have doubts.

Even so, overall the next phase may somewhere completely different. Korea, Taiwan, or somewhere unexpected.

Inshallah. I do too. I am less confident than I was yesterday. None of the regional powers want a way. Saudi Arabia wants to normalize ties with Israel. Turkey wants gas deals. Iran wants a deal with Saudi Arabia. 
 

Israel may want to provoke something with Hezbollah for two reasons. Firstly, because Netanyahu needs the war the last a long time so he can survive the domestic political mess he’s in. Secondly, because like Ukraine against Russia, it is beneficial to Israel to bring the US into this conflict. This would help them with Hezbollah and Iran. When I say Israeli here I mostly mean Netanyahu. There are many smarter people inIsrael than him. 

[BarbTherese]

On 10/28/2023 at 12:45 AM, Didacus said:

I even pray for those god-dammed atheists!

[little2add]

Jesus birthplace, Bethlehem officially CANCELS Christmas for first time in decades due to Israel war ‘massacre’

https://www.the-sun.com/news/9635665/jesus-birthplace-bethlehem-officially-cancels-christmas-israel-war-gaza/

[Didacus]

On 11/16/2023 at 8:43 PM, little2add said:

Jesus birthplace, Bethlehem officially CANCELS Christmas for first time in decades due to Israel war ‘massacre’

https://www.the-sun.com/news/9635665/jesus-birthplace-bethlehem-officially-cancels-christmas-israel-war-gaza/

That is unfortunate...

[little2add]

 

[Hna.Caridad]

https://www.vaticannews.va/en/world/news/2023-12/in-gaza-israelis-attack-holy-family-parish-two-women-killed.html

Two women killed in Israeli attack on Holy Family parish in Gaza

The Israeli military on Saturday entered the compound of the Holy Family Catholic Parish in Gaza, shooting at anyone leaving the church. The victims are an elderly woman and her daughter who rushed out of the building to rescue her mother. Israel has justified the attack, claiming the presence of a missile launcher in the parish.

By Vatican News

Israelis have opened fire on Gaza's Christians. Following heavy bombardment overnight of the area around Holy Family Latin parish in Gaza City,  dozens are reported dead, according to the Palestinian news agency Wafa, and reports continue to arrive that shooting by Israeli snipers continues during these hours.

A statement released by the Latin Patriarchate of Jerusalem confirmed that an Israeli sniper murdered two Christian women inside the Holy Family Parish where the majority of Christian families have taken refuge since the start of the war.

Shot in cold blood

The victims are Nahida and her daughter Samar who were shot and killed as they walked to the Sister's Convent. "One was killed as she tried to carry the other to safety," the statement said.

Seven more people were reportedly also shot and wounded as they tried to protect those inside the church compound. The Patriarchate's statement noted, "No warning was given, no notification was provided. They were shot in cold blood inside the premises of the Parish, where there are no belligerents."

Attack on Missionaries of Charity Convent

The statement also revealed that a rocket fired from an Israeli Defense Forces tank during the morning targeted and struck the Convent of the Sisters of Mother Theresa, destroying the building's generator - its only source of electricity - while a massive fire damaged the house.

"The Convent is home to over 54 disabled persons and is part of the church compound, which was signalled as a place of worship since the beginning of the war," it said.

The building was subsequently targeted by two more rockets rendering the home inhabitable: "The 54 disabled persons are currently displaced and without access to the respirators that some of them need to survive."

Heavy bombing in the area

Three other people were also wounded inside the church compound during the night attacks, while solar panels and water tanks, which are indispensable for the survival of the community, were destroyed. 

The ongoing attack was reportedly justified by Israelis who claimed the presence of a rocket launcher in the parish. Despite the Patriarchate's intervention, the operation has not been halted. Israeli soldiers reportedly fired towards the parish compound and the civilians sheltering in the building.

Senseless tragedy

The Latin Patriarchate of Jerusalem concluded expressing closeness and condolences to the families "affected by this senseless tragedy." 

It says it is in prayer with the whole Christian community, and at the same time expresses a lack of comprehension for "how such an attack could be carried out, even more so as the whole Church prepares for Christmas."