Politics

[fides' Jack]

[little2add]

Hahaha 

it’s funny because it’s true

[Nunsuch]

17 hours ago, little2add said:

Hahaha 

it’s funny because it’s true

Actually, it is NOT true. If you have read the actual indictment, it says explicitly--and you only need to read to page 2--that Trump has the right to SAY whatever he wants. It's when he acts on it that the alleged (because he's been accused and people are innocent until proven guilty) problems begin. 

An analogy: I could SAY that I have $1,000,000 in my local bank. But if I go to the bank and demand that they GIVE me $1,000,000 (trust me--I don't have it!), that is attempted bank robbery and I can be arrested.

[Adrestia]

4 hours ago, Nunsuch said:

Actually, it is NOT true. If you have read the actual indictment, it says explicitly--and you only need to read to page 2--that Trump has the right to SAY whatever he wants. It's when he acts on it that the alleged (because he's been accused and people are innocent until proven guilty) problems begin. 

An analogy: I could SAY that I have $1,000,000 in my local bank. But if I go to the bank and demand that they GIVE me $1,000,000 (trust me--I don't have it!), that is attempted bank robbery and I can be arrested.

Agree, but it's a slippery slope when the courts get involved in politics. Hopefully the accountability will apply to all sides. 

[Nunsuch]

Courts will get involved in politics when politicians do things that are allegedly criminal. And that is the way it should be. They are, after all, citizens who are subject to the same laws as you and I. Please don't forget that criminal indictments are brought by determinations of citizen juries. It's one thing to talk about impeachments as being at least partly political, because they are, but courts are different. 

[Luigi]

3 hours ago, Nunsuch said:

Courts will get involved in politics when politicians do things that are allegedly criminal. And that is the way it should be. They are, after all, citizens who are subject to the same laws as you and I. Please don't forget that criminal indictments are brought by determinations of citizen juries. It's one thing to talk about impeachments as being at least partly political, because they are, but courts are different. 

This indictment is not being brought by determinations of citizen juries. This indictment is being brought after two-and-a-half years of full time investigations by Senate committees and the department of justice. If we put that much manpower into an investigation of ANYone, and presented the findings to politically like-minded committees, they'd be able to find enough evidence to go forward with a trial, even if the ttrial winds up finding the accused innocent. What I see happening right before my very eyes is the weaponization of the law by the power elite. Pardon me while I puke. 

[Nunsuch]

12 hours ago, Luigi said:

This indictment is not being brought by determinations of citizen juries. This indictment is being brought after two-and-a-half years of full time investigations by Senate committees and the department of justice. If we put that much manpower into an investigation of ANYone, and presented the findings to politically like-minded committees, they'd be able to find enough evidence to go forward with a trial, even if the ttrial winds up finding the accused innocent. What I see happening right before my very eyes is the weaponization of the law by the power elite. Pardon me while I puke. 

I don't think you understand how the court system works. The indictment came from the decision of a grand jury. Go ahead and puke, but this is how the US justice system actually functions. And it is functioning properly. If this makes you "puke," I'm so very sorry. 

[little2add]

On 8/12/2023 at 11:40 AM, Nunsuch said:

actual indictment,

On Aug. 4, special prosecutor Jack Smith asked the court for an order to gag former President Donald Trump from discussing the evidence the government plans to use against him or even criticizing the government’s lawyers. 

Trump’s entitled to his opinion. After all, Smith’s calling him a criminal.

Trying to muzzle any defendant goes contrary to what the Bill of Rights and two centuries of American law stand for: putting the rights of the defendant ahead of any other considerations.

In 1986, the Supreme Court ruled in Press-Enterprise Co. v. Superior Court of California that the Constitution guarantees not only that trials are public but also that pretrial proceedings are open to the public, except in the rare circumstance that nondisclosure is needed to protect the defendant.

[BG45]

22 hours ago, little2add said:

On Aug. 4, special prosecutor Jack Smith asked the court for an order to gag former President Donald Trump from discussing the evidence the government plans to use against him or even criticizing the government’s lawyers. 

This is called, "treating him like any other person on trial in America." (Here's a hint, most defendants would not have a 'gag order', which this isn't, it's a protective order, when they post threatening comments online and cause a judge's security to be heightened due to violent threats. Most defendants would be in jail. Most defendants wouldn't have been released on their own recognizance either.)  Again, as Nunsuch said, the thread doesn't seem to understand how courts function, or how long investigations actually take, especially when one party continually tries to delay by claiming they don't have available dates while appearing on all the Sunday shows to smear or threaten government lawyers or the judge.

 

Anyhow, that's my only reply for this thread.  I've got all the Sedevacantists on Ignore anyhow so can't see some of the replies, and PM's latest member was from mid-2022, showing that when all you have is an echo chamber of falsity, there's almost no activity; the only real surge was when Dust pump-faked closing the phorum.  Plus the idolatry of a politician, whom is adored by many over Christ, and listened to by many "Church Militant", more than the Pope, is quite sickening.

 

 

Edited August 14, 2023 by BG45

[fides' Jack]

On 8/13/2023 at 10:22 AM, Nunsuch said:

And it is functioning properly.

 

29 minutes ago, BG45 said:

Plus the idolatry of a politician, whom is adored by many over Christ, and listened to by many "Church Militant", more than the Pope, is quite sickening.

Actually, this is a great point.  I can't stand the savior complex that so many have with Trump.  It IS idolatry.

When it comes to Trump, I do want fair treatment by the courts and by the media.  The witch-hunt is getting tiresome.  His first impeachment has now been proven to be entirely based on lies - to the point that the crimes he was accused of were directly committed by the very people who accused him.  If the roles were reversed, and Trump were guilty of what the Biden crime family is so obviously guilty of (that we have direct and indirect evidence of), he would have been hung long ago.  

BUT Trump is not a good man.  He clearly allowed some things that are completely immoral into the country, and furthered the cause of satan in the entire Western world (and probably globally).  Having had much more time to consider things, I would not vote for the man again.  Nevertheless, I do believe he's going to be president again, and I do believe that his public image is going to shift dramatically.  For me, it's too late.  My opinion of the man is not going to change, unless he publicly repents.  His one saving grace was his role in the reversal of Roe v Wade.  

42 minutes ago, BG45 said:

Again, as Nunsuch said, the thread doesn't seem to understand how courts function, or how long investigations actually take, especially when one party continually tries to delay by claiming they don't have available dates while appearing on all the Sunday shows to smear or threaten government lawyers or the judge.

Well, to be fair, the accusation comes from arguments that also don't seem to understand how the courts are supposed to function.  The courts are there for the purpose of justice.  When most indictments come from making deals in order to get people to plead guilty by limiting the sentence, there is no true justice served.  It's been a long time since the courts functioned as they ought.  And it's been probably longer since many of the higher up attorneys general actually did their jobs without political bias.

[little2add]

On 8/14/2023 at 12:58 PM, fides' Jack said:

clearly allowed some things that are completely immoral

Name one

[fides' Jack]

59 minutes ago, little2add said:

Name one

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/2020/01/27/why-trump-is-the-most-pro-gay-president-in-us-history-opinion/

I am not the one who called him the most pro-gay president in US history, though I have on occasion repeated that line.

Also, I don't know if you would agree with this or not at this point, but he fully supported, sanctioned, and promoted Operation Warpspeed (I did too, initially, due to how it was presented to the public), and also under him the denial of the ability of doctors to prescribe what they felt best during covid, forcing them to betray their own consciences. 

There's actually a lot more I could share - about a range of issues.

[Didacus]

Hasn't Biden done even worse... with much more evidence that is STILL coming up?

When does he get his turn to me impeached?  Or is that a privilege reserved for 'special' people?

For crying out loud, Trump got impeached for a phone call, which is now kinda obvious he was enquiring about corruption that was actually true...  

Ils sont fous c'est americains....

[fides' Jack]

2 hours ago, Didacus said:

Hasn't Biden done even worse... with much more evidence that is STILL coming up?

When does he get his turn to me impeached?  Or is that a privilege reserved for 'special' people?

For crying out loud, Trump got impeached for a phone call, which is now kinda obvious he was enquiring about corruption that was actually true...  

Ils sont fous c'est americains....

Yes, clearly Biden has done worse.  By any measure.  The evidence against his criminal behavior is so far beyond overwhelming that I would laugh, except it's beyond that point, too.  

It's bizarro world now.

I'm done picking the least bad candidate.  Others were right in the last few elections who brought this up.  I have every reason to believe that voting makes no difference, anyway - at least in my state.

[little2add]

22 hours ago, fides' Jack said:

I don't know if you would agree with this

 I don't

compared to Binden Clinton, Bush, Obama, Trump is a Saint.

for, instance trump didn't hand over 400 billion+ $ of  American dollars to support and promote the Ukraine/Russia War. 

trump is responsible for Abraham Peace Accords, the end of late term abortion and a lot more good and righteous things.

Edited August 18, 2023 by little2add