Is any community devoted to fighting the gender revolution and upholding fundamental truths about the human person?

[Alison]

I've begun to realize that this whole gender ideology revolution is seriously destructive, and is leading society to completley misunderstand some of the most basic and sacred truths about the human person. If we misunderstand ourselves, we will not see ourselves in the light of God...we will not see God at all.

Are there any communtities especially devoted to this? How does one even begin to fight this issue plaguing society in a spirit of truth and charity?

[Hannie_f]

Some of the most fascinating conversations I have with people who would wildly disagree with me on most things gender and sexuality have been gently explaining the desire I have for marriage and motherhood and children, and how being a woman is important to me, as the specific way in which I as a person stand before God. And now in entering religious life soon God willing, spiritual motherhood and as a spouse to Christ and all the ways in which my womanhood plays into that. You'd be surprised how much they would agree, or say they feel it is right, or beautiful, from the most unexpected people. I find in my classes at university sadly that friends and peers and even among a few Catholic friends are slowly starting to despise in some way the fact that they are male, that they are female, that in some way they must be more just a blank person, but you can equally tell this doesn't make them happy even if they can't put their finger on why. The saddest conversation I ever had last year was when a friend told me that she was starting to experience a desire for children, and this was something wrong with her. Not so much a fight I suppose, but in your own life you can be a quiet witness to those truths by living as a woman and embracing it.

I'm sure that in terms of fatherhood and masculinity much of all the same would be true among men, but I haven't any experience of that! 

[GraceUk]

This is a big thing in the UK at the moment. With males going to womens prisons because they identify as female. And men identifying as women taking part in womens sports. It's gone a bit crazy. 

[Luigi]

I can't imagine any congregation has been established with that goal in mind - not yet, anyway - because it's such a recent trend, and it takes a long time to establish a congregation. 

[gloriana35]

3 hours ago, GraceUk said:

This is a big thing in the UK at the moment. With males going to womens prisons because they identify as female. And men identifying as women taking part in womens sports. It's gone a bit crazy. 

I was just discussing this with a friend last week. (She now is in Northumberland, so we talk over the telephone.) 

[tinytherese]

On 3/3/2023 at 8:53 AM, Luigi said:

I can't imagine any congregation has been established with that goal in mind - not yet, anyway - because it's such a recent trend, and it takes a long time to establish a congregation. 

Yea, people are in the infancy stages of even approaching the topic. More resources will likely pop up as time goes on. I know that Jason Evert recently wrote a book on the subject, talked about it on his podcast "Lust is Boring", and his website.

https://chastity.com/qa/category/lgbtq/

[BarbTherese]

Sisters of Life?

[gloriana35]

I am far from being any expert on human sexuality, and certainly am not a moral theologian. I hope no-one will be offended (...oh, can you pick up on the 1970s nun?)  by my saying that I do not even understand much of what is in the media, or which I have heard discussed, about thirteen genders; who is bigender; how so many people are not identifying with the gender they originally were assumed to have. Yet I have read of children (some not even old enough for puberty) developing grave depression or killing themselves for not being accepted for being transgender. It is confusing, but a very delicate area. (Even the decision of the Church of England, to not allow church marriages for same-sex couples, is being treated as if it were hateful and a violation of civil rights. Yet too many Church positions in the past 50 years have seemed to be presented more as a matter of civil rights than with attention to theological detail. I'm of mature years. My generation, well-meaning though we were, seemed to forget salvation, deification, theosis - the only personal sin left was being judgemental, even if we were speaking in theory, not judging the state of another soul, which never would be appropriate.)

I cannot say how this could be done, but there needs to be an overall stress on worship - on our human dignity, created in the divine image, deified through the Incarnation/resurrection. It sometimes saddens me when I read of religious communities who have a very selective emphasis on, for example, devotions for the unborn or sin of abortion. That does not mean I believe in abortion - though it can be a very complicated pastoral area - but that the focus is too limited,  and I cannot help but wonder if someone who had an abortion might feel she was guilty of the unspeakable sin and could never return to the Church. 

I would not want a congregation to be founded to specifically focus on gender issues. It could be taken to mean that those with whatever these gender situations are are 'the enemy.' 

The Church is catholic - that 'all are welcome' should be 'a given.' (I'm so 'live and let live' that I wouldn't notice if someone in the next pew had two heads. I am not a priest, or a spiritual director or confessor, or a moralist - what might be appropriate in such a role could be either teaching documents or pastoral guidance with knowledge of an individual's background.) But we've all neglected the dignity of creation, the focus on worship instead of only human relations, and so forth for too long. I would not want to see a single matter (much as it confuses me entirely, and I can't keep track of who is a 'he,' 'she', or 'they', since 'they' was a plural for 65 years of my life) be a community's focus. Campaigning and even offering devotions against puzzling developments in relation to thoughts of gender could keep those of us who are not transgender, binary, homosexual, and so forth from seeing our own sins and distractions. Devotions entirely against gender ideas could drive those who believe they don't fit in to despair.

I hope I'm making some sort of sense. I just do not think that a religious community should be established just to work against some very new and confusing idea. Preaching and living virtue and worship is part of all Religious life (or should be), and there is very little witness to vowed life left today. Vowed chastity, for example, has an eschatological dimension - the idea that life-long celibacy could be a charism only evolved in light of the resurrection, and recognition that there is more to our existence than this world, or living on through our children. 

[SorrowfulHeart]

I agree with Gloriana. I am still in high school, and many of my friends have some form of "body dysmorphia", which is a health condition that usually leads to someone wishing to change their gender. (here is a greater explanation of it https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/body-dysmorphic-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20353938)

They have also had really bad experiences with "Christian" people(one of my friends was in a cult for the first seven years of their life), but they are very curious about my experiences with religion, especially religious life.

As a way to respect them, I use their preferred pronouns and names, but have been very upfront that I draw the line at true body changing(hormones, surgery, etc.)

While I do not know if this is a sin or an offense against God, I do know that I have been able to reach people that probably would not have had any "good" experiences with Catholics/Christians if I  had not been placed in their lives. 

This is just my two cents. Again, I am not a theologian or anyone with any true understanding of the matter. These are just my life experiences.

[gloriana35]

I am acquainted with several people who are transgender (some of whom are involved in the church where I worship), but they are adult - I have no notion of what their reasons for transitioning were, nor would I ask. I'll admit that I am concerned with how very many children and youth have the dysmorphia  which Sorrowful Heart mentioned, and with the overall increase in suicides amongst the young. Once again, I shall emphasise that this is not my field, but, with the very large numbers of those who consider themselves to be of the wrong gender, I am concerned that the deep-seated problems someone may have (that could lead to despair and suicide) might not be directly related to gender confusion. (My knowledge is small, but I know there are those who have organs from both sexes - it is rare, but always existed.)

There indeed are matters which involve medical ethics or pastoral guidance which can arise, in this area that actually is quite new. Very few people had (what was called) a sex change forty years ago - there could be all sorts of new research that is necessary. But I would leave it to the specialists in medical ethics and moral theology to explore these areas. I would not want to see any religious congregation dedicate themselves to (borrowing the initial references in this thread) a 'revolution'! We're all one in human dignity, in the image and likeness of God, our nature deified in the Incarnation and resurrection. This isn't 'us vs. them.'

I've never known any Sisters of Life (mentioned in this thread, as well), but, from what I have read of them, they are professionals who can deal with social, medical, and legal difficulties which could lead an expectant mother to despair. I gather they are specialists in these fields, and they well may find assistance that could keep someone from the despair that leads to abortion. I only have read of them, but nothing gave me an impression that they were condemning abortion without being directly involved in seeking practical solutions and alternatives. They are working on the premise that abortion is murder. Those who are transgender are not harming anyone.

Edited March 21, 2023 by gloriana35
adding a reference

[BarbTherese]

7 hours ago, gloriana35 said:

without being directly involved in seeking practical solutions and alternatives

I agree G35 ............... Active and direct involvement in seeking and presenting potential "practical solutions and alternatives" is an important and vital aspect of working with social problems of any kind.  I do think that anything less is involved in one aspect only of a social problem - it is a negative (action) with nothing positive to contribute to the involvement, diminishing or even eliminating the problem itself, at least in potential anyway.

7 hours ago, gloriana35 said:

(A)They are working on the premise that abortion is murder. (B)Those who are transgender are not harming anyone.

A Is to diminish one life and to destroy another.  A could even be described theologically as destruction of two lives presupposing abortion is grave matter and potentially mortally sinful.   B Is to diminish one life; alternatively, theologically speaking, potentially destruction of that life.

                                         

 

                                  

 

   

[Nunsuch]

9 hours ago, BarbTherese said:

I agree G35 ............... Active and direct involvement in seeking and presenting potential "practical solutions and alternatives" is an important and vital aspect of working with social problems of any kind.  I do think that anything less is involved in one aspect only of a social problem - it is a negative (action) with nothing positive to contribute to the involvement, diminishing or even eliminating the problem itself, at least in potential anyway.

A Is to diminish one life and to destroy another.  A could even be described theologically as destruction of two lives presupposing abortion is grave matter and potentially mortally sinful.   B Is to diminish one life; alternatively, theologically speaking, potentially destruction of that life.

                                       

Given the high rate of suicide among transgender people (especially the young) who are denied the healthcare they seek--or who are condemned, rejected by family, etc.--it seems to me that support for them is the best way to prevent the "destruction of life" that you reference here. Like @gloriana35, I know several trans people, and have learned about their stories and experiences. 

[BarbTherese]

27 minutes ago, Nunsuch said:

Given the high rate of suicide among transgender people (especially the young) who are denied the healthcare they seek--or who are condemned, rejected by family, etc.--it seems to me that support for them is the best way to prevent the "destruction of life" that you reference here. Like @gloriana35, I know several trans people, and have learned about their stories and experiences. 

        Thank you, Nunsuch.  I have known one transgender person I met in a private psychiatric hospital.  Everyone shunned her and she had had a terrible story and journey.  From that one experience, I very much agree that supporting the person is very positive to and for the person and much needed.  Involving them in community life if at  all possible - making every effort to do so.  Here in Australia, I do suspect we know all the right words, but are those words put into action 'on the ground' as it were.  My suspicion is probably not.....same as with mental illness and my own personal experience.  The negative, one of them, of any social problem.

In "destruction of life", I was referring to abortion  as my subject..........any confusion might be due possibly to clumsy sentence construction.  I am a fast and quite accurate typist and tend to write what I think, and as I think, with insufficient editing for clarity.  I am hoping to correct this here in this aged care home in which I now live.......i.e. plenty of time on my hands.       Hope so ............ while I have a lifetime of poor editing habits to correct.                        

 

 

Afterthought and I think I might have misread your Post, Nunsuch:  To make life more difficult for a transgender person is to contribute to the destruction of their life. to which, as with all, transgender persons have a Divine Right.   "Whatever you do for one of these, though the least of mine, you have done it to Me".   In Divine Justice, we owe them support and confirmation of their person-hood.

What makes my sin less serious than anyone else's sin?  In short: "Who am I to judge?"

Edited March 22, 2023 by BarbTherese

[Nunsuch]

Thank you, @BarbTherese--I think I did misinterpret your message. Sorry--and glad for the clarification. We both seem to be on the "same page" (along with @gloriana35).

I know a couple of very well adjusted and happy trans people who are colleagues, and they are fortunately accepted and supported, both personally and professionally (one just got tenure at my uni; the other has a professional staff position). I have also had a few trans students. I believe that knowing people who experience something entirely outside our own experience is the first step toward understanding. 

[BarbTherese]

19 minutes ago, Nunsuch said:

I believe that knowing people who experience something entirely outside our own experience is the first step toward understanding

I do agree with you in the above too, although it has challenged me to think about it.  Experiencing something entirely "outside my own experience" sort of thrusts me into the dark, the unknown, outside of my compartments and boundaries.  Fight or flight clicks in and I either run back into my own experience seeking safety and the non-threatening, the known (flight), or undertake the journey of empathy and out of the darkness toward understanding ('fight'), although without clear sight of where that journey will take me until someone spells it out for me  .

I was very happy to read of transgender people having positive social experiences and loving acceptance and appreciation is certainly outside of my experience, where people are challenged and are challenging status quo in society.

It is 2am here.  It isn't until after  9pm that my 'day' can commence.  It is only after  9pm that staff cease going about their duties in and out my room and quiet and silence settles.  I am used to living alone in my unit where quiet and silence reigned.  I will get there, because I am determined to get there......wherever there is!