Tanks

[BarbTherese]

6 hours ago, fides' Jack said:

I'm curious what makes you think that we owe Ukraine anything?  Do you mean, we owe them because we have a debt to them, or do you think it's more about morals - we owe them because it's the right thing to do?

 

The war Russia wages against Ukraine is a proxy war in my book.  If Russia wins the war in the Ukraine, it opens up the whole of Europe.  The west really must step in then to defend Europe.  Then we have WWIII perhaps for sure.

I think we have a debt to help Ukraine, because it is a proxy war.  It is the moral thing to do.

It is Russia that is provoking a situation that could unfold into WWIII.  I should, however, I think state "Putin" rather than "Russia" and in all instances.

6 hours ago, fides' Jack said:

Wow, that's a strong statement.  If that happened it would be, effectively, WWIII. 

It is a terrible statement, I agree.  It may even be a morally evil one if one goes by what the CCC states.  But I really do think that we must help the Ukraine, moreso than increased weaponry.  I may be very wrong indeed.  It is a terrible thing to put boots on the ground and ask men and women to be at mortal risk.  I am also very conscious too of countries outside of the west who are nuclear armed.

This is only my impoverished opinion, nothing more.

Quote

 

A JUST WAR

CCC 2309 The strict conditions for legitimate defense by military force require rigorous consideration. The gravity of such a decision makes it subject to rigorous conditions of moral legitimacy. At one and the same time:

- the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain;

- all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective;

- there must be serious prospects of success;

- the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated. The power of modern means of destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition.

These are the traditional elements enumerated in what is called the "just war" doctrine.

The evaluation of these conditions for moral legitimacy belongs to the prudential judgment of those who have responsibility for the common good.

 

 

[BarbTherese]

On 2/2/2023 at 3:16 AM, Nihil Obstat said:

, and he has not - yet. 

With "yet" operative.............the problem Putin has, I think, is that he cannot figure out what is the end purpose USA has in mind for supporting a proxy war.  Putin wants to avert war JUST NOW PERHAPS, because he knows he is ill equipped psychologically in the current situation and would be further so in an actual war with the West.

Three things could;d escalate the Putin war in my book:

1. More sophisticated weaponry involved
2. Boots on the ground
3. Nuclear

Quote

Russia is the only country that seems to have any interest at all in averting a world war

Presupposing the above is correct, not to say it is correct, I think it is because Putin cannot figure out the USA's strategic purposes.  This puts him on his back foot and he can feel it does - (my supposition).   "Proxy wars involve the sponsorship of actors by an external state to influence a violent conflict's outcome for the external state's own strategic purposes." https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/03071848108523403?journalCode=rusi20#:~:text=The development of the strategy,into conflict with each other.

Edited April 3, 2023 by BarbTherese

[Didacus]

How long do you figure until China gets involved in Ukraine or attacks Taiwan?

[little2add]

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/us-air-force-general-predicts-war-china-2025-memo-rcna67967
 

[fides' Jack]

On 4/3/2023 at 1:43 AM, BarbTherese said:

It is a terrible statement, I agree.  It may even be a morally evil one if one goes by what the CCC states.  But I really do think that we must help the Ukraine, moreso than increased weaponry.  I may be very wrong indeed.  It is a terrible thing to put boots on the ground and ask men and women to be at mortal risk.  I am also very conscious too of countries outside of the west who are nuclear armed.

I disagree with you, but the news has broken - the US and NATO already have boots on the ground in Ukraine.  

As I said before, the only country that seems to be trying to NOT provoke war here is Russia.

It is indeed a proxy war - that Ukraine is fighting for the West, and specifically for the US.  Everyone should watch this, from one of the most expert opinions on the matter.  The United States started this war over the last decades.  This war did not start last year, and Russia did not make the first move.

 

[fides' Jack]

If this is true, the morality of the war in Ukraine, which most assumed was (at the very least) questionable before, would appear to have just cause: https://healthimpactnews.com/2023/russian-soldiers-discover-baby-factories-in-ukraine-where-young-children-are-grown-for-child-sex-brothels-and-for-organ-harvesting/

That's an evil on par with the native tribes before the colonization of the Americas, who would slaughter tens of thousands of people in sacrifice to false gods - and that sometimes in a single day.  

[Didacus]

48 minutes ago, fides' Jack said:

If this is true, the morality of the war in Ukraine, which most assumed was (at the very least) questionable before, would appear to have just cause: https://healthimpactnews.com/2023/russian-soldiers-discover-baby-factories-in-ukraine-where-young-children-are-grown-for-child-sex-brothels-and-for-organ-harvesting/

That's an evil on par with the native tribes before the colonization of the Americas, who would slaughter tens of thousands of people in sacrifice to false gods - and that sometimes in a single day.  

"You may live to see man-made horrors beyond your comprehension.”

May God have mercy... but not too much mercy...

[little2add]

10 hours ago, fides' Jack said:

cause: https://healthimpactnews.com/2023/russian-soldiers-discover-baby-factories-in-ukraine-where-young-children-are-grown-for-child-sex-brothels-and-for-organ-harvesting/

 

[BarbTherese]

18 hours ago, fides' Jack said:

If this is true, the morality of the war in Ukraine, which most assumed was (at the very least) questionable before, would appear to have just cause: https://healthimpactnews.com/2023/russian-soldiers-discover-baby-factories-in-ukraine-where-young-children-are-grown-for-child-sex-brothels-and-for-organ-harvesting/

That's an evil on par with the native tribes before the colonization of the Americas, who would slaughter tens of thousands of people in sacrifice to false gods - and that sometimes in a single day.  

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/health-impact-news/  "Overall, we rate Health Impact News a Quackery-level pseudoscience website for the promotion of anti-vaccination propaganda as well as chemtrails, geoengineering, and false information regarding GMOs."

[BarbTherese]

1 hour ago, BarbTherese said:

russian-soldiers-discover-baby-factories-in-ukraine-where-young-children-are-grown-for-child-sex-brothels-and-for-organ-harvesting/

Insofar as I am concerned, the above would have to be the sickest and most revolting bit of false news I have ever read.  To promote it, if one is aware it is false news, is probably just as bad.

[fides' Jack]

On 5/27/2023 at 3:49 AM, BarbTherese said:

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/health-impact-news/  "Overall, we rate Health Impact News a Quackery-level pseudoscience website for the promotion of anti-vaccination propaganda as well as chemtrails, geoengineering, and false information regarding GMOs."

I haven't heard of Health Impact News before this, but just looking at it one can see that it leans in the same direction that I do.  I have no problem with the bias presented there.  That doesn't mean they're wrong.  A broken clock is right twice each day. 

Are you aware of the bias of "mediabiasfactcheck"?  They are also biased toward the far left, and are used to attack other organizations via ad hominems (as you have now done).  Of course, it's impossible to directly argue against the info presented by the article, so the only recourse left is to use ad hominem attacks.  

I don't believe something just because it's on Health Impact News.  Do you trust every rating by mediabiasfactcheck?

Sadly, this isn't the first time I've heard of this, and I've seen direct evidence (legalese) indicating the truth of this happening not just in Ukraine, but throughout Europe.  I have no doubt it's happening in the USA, also.  

On 5/26/2023 at 7:19 PM, little2add said:

 

So be it.  I wear it proudly.

On 5/27/2023 at 5:29 AM, BarbTherese said:

Insofar as I am concerned, the above would have to be the sickest and most revolting bit of false news I have ever read.  To promote it, if one is aware it is false news, is probably just as bad.

And what would you say if it turned out to be true?  

On 5/26/2023 at 9:53 AM, Didacus said:

"You may live to see man-made horrors beyond your comprehension.”

May God have mercy... but not too much mercy...

Amen.

Edited May 28, 2023 by fides' Jack

[little2add]

2 hours ago, fides' Jack said:

And what would you say if it turned out to be true?  

And what would you say if it turned out to be unmitigated Bullshi

[fides' Jack]

3 hours ago, little2add said:

And what would you say if it turned out to be unmitigated Bullshi

Then I will say I was wrong.  But at least I was willing to err on the side of prudence, even if I am shamed for my position.  It's worth finding out if it's right or wrong.  Because the difference seems just as big to me as the moral difference in abortion about whether the "fetus" is or is not a human being.  If it's true, there's so much at stake, and it's an indication that most people are falling prey to media propaganda regarding a great many things.  If it's true, the moral consequences go far, far beyond the war in Ukraine.  If it's false, then my gullibility really didn't have a big impact on anything, anyway, other than my own personal opinions.

Let's find out.

[little2add]

lets look at the facts that can be verified and are undeniable.

Since the war began, the Biden administration and the U.S. Congress have directed more than $75 billion in military assistance to Ukraine.

Ukraine has suffered 124,500-131,000 total casualties, including 15,500-17,500 killed in action and 109,000-113,500 wounded in action, according to the document entitled "Russia/Ukraine - Assessed Combat Sustainability and Attrition."  But because the US , as far as is reported, does not have boots on the ground in Ukraine its somehow okay?

BTW, The Office of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) says it has confirmed the deaths of almost 8,500 civilians since Russia launched its full-scale invasion of Ukraine last year, and believes the toll could be thousands higher.

Now,  hear now the word of the Lord from Matthew 5:38-42. 38

“You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.  But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Edited May 29, 2023 by little2add

[fides' Jack]

6 hours ago, little2add said:

lets look at the facts that can be verified and are undeniable.

Yes, lets.  

6 hours ago, little2add said:

Since the war began, the Biden administration and the U.S. Congress have directed more than $75 billion in military assistance to Ukraine.

Granted.  Actually, I thought it was over $100 billion.  However, it's also been reported that the majority of that money has gone elsewhere - even to other countries.  We have no way to verify the authenticity of either proposal.

6 hours ago, little2add said:

Ukraine has suffered 124,500-131,000 total casualties, including 15,500-17,500 killed in action and 109,000-113,500 wounded in action, according to the document entitled "Russia/Ukraine - Assessed Combat Sustainability and Attrition."

Sure, according to that document.  We have no way to verify the authenticity of this.

6 hours ago, little2add said:

But because the US , as far as is reported, does not have boots on the ground in Ukraine its somehow okay?

It's also been reported that the US does have boots on the ground in Ukraine.  We have no way to verify the authenticity of this.

6 hours ago, little2add said:

BTW, The Office of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) says it has confirmed the deaths of almost 8,500 civilians since Russia launched its full-scale invasion of Ukraine last year, and believes the toll could be thousands higher.

It's pretty clear the UN is an instigator here.  We have no way to verify this, either. 

So far, everything we know comes from unverifiable (and untrustworthy) government entities, and even more untrustworthy media.

6 hours ago, little2add said:

Now,  hear now the word of the Lord from Matthew 5:38-42. 38

“You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.  But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.

This is verifiable and trustworthy.  This is what I trust in.

I certainly do not trust our LGBT+/BLM/Race-obsessed/Murder-obsessed government and mass-media to tell us the truth about anything anymore.  

I wonder, how many people who support Ukraine in this war have listened to any of the talks Putin has given since it started?  Or is he so evil that we shouldn't even hear his words?  If he is that evil, how is the Biden administration not?  How about this speech?: http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/66975

Edited May 29, 2023 by fides' Jack
Found better source for video