Your Theology and a Basic Minimum Income?

[Dennis Tate]

Your theology and a Basic Minimum Income?

 

I have believed for many years now that if somebody's religious beliefs is PRO-LIFE then they should also tend to support a Basic Minimum Income for all citizens as was advocated by Economist Milton Friedman.

 

An UNCONDITIONAL BASIC MINIMUM INCOME would give added life to organizations that are attempting to help the homeless.... drug addicts....... alcoholics...... victims of the sex industry...victims of the gambling industry ... and would become a source of revenue that courts could divert over from fathers to a mom who has custody of the children and is actually caring for the children!

 

I am Pro - Life and I definitely think that an unconditional Basic Minimum Income to all citizens will positively alter the economy of The United States and Canada and soon other nations will follow suit because our history shows how this idea goes back many decades.

 

...... But we need to know about how President Abraham Lincoln saved American Taxpayers FOUR BILLION DOLLARS IN INTEREST PAYMENTS IN ORDER TO UNDERSTAND HOW THIS IDEA CAN BE USED TO BREAK CHAINS AND SET CAPTIVES FREE FROM RUNNING ON AN ECONOMIC TREADMILL LIKE GHERBILS!!!!!!

MELVIN SICKLER ....  

Quote

 

" During the Civil War (1861-1865), President Lincoln needed money to finance the War from the North. The Bankers were going to charge him 24% to 36% interest. Lincoln was horrified and went away greatly distressed, for he was a man of principle and would not think of plunging his beloved country into a debt that the country would find impossible to pay back.

Eventually President Lincoln was advised to get Congress to pass a law authorizing the printing of full legal tender Treasury notes to pay for the War effort. Lincoln recognized the great benefits of this issue. At one point he wrote:

 

"... (we) gave the people of this Republic the greatest blessing they have ever had -- their own paper money to pay their own debts..."

 

Lincoln printed 400 million dollars worth of Greenbacks (the exact amount being $449,338,902), money that he delegated to be created, a debt-free and interest-free money to finance the War. It served as legal tender for all debts, public and private. He printed it, paid it to the soldiers, to the U.S. Civil Service employees, and bought supplies for war.

Shortly after that happened, "The London Times" printed the following: "If that mischievous financial policy, which had its origin in the North American Republic, should become indurated down to a fixture, then that Government will furnish its own money without cost. That govern-ment must be destroyed, or it will destroy every monarchy on the globe." In retaliation

 

After this was published in "The London Times", the British Government, which was controlled by the London and other European Bankers, moved to support the Confederate South, hoping to defeat Lincoln and the Union, and destroy this government which they said had to be destroyed.

 

The Czar of Russia sent a portion of the Russian navy to the United States with orders that its admiral would operate under the command of Abraham Lincoln. These ships of the Russian navy then became a threat to the ships of the British navy which had intended to break the blockade and help the South.

 

The North won the War, and the Union was preserved. America remained as one nation.

 

Of course, the Bankers were not going to give in that easy, for they were determined to put an end to Lincoln's interest-free, debt-free Greenbacks. He was assassinated by an agent of the Bankers shortly after the War ended.

 

Thereafter, Congress revoked the Green-back Law and enacted, in its place, the National Banking Act. The national banks were to be privately owned and the national bank notes they issued were to be interest bearing. The Act also provided that the Greenbacks should be retired from circulation as soon as they came back to the Treasury in payment of taxes.

 

In 1972, the United States Treasury Department was asked to compute the amount of interest that would have been paid if that 400 million dollars would have been borrowed at interest instead of being issued by Abraham Lincoln. They did some computations, and a few weeks later, the United States Treasury Department said the United States Government saved 4 billion dollars in interest because Lincoln had created his own money." (MELVIN SICKLER, LINCOLN, KENNEDY)

 

 

http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/your-theology-and-a-basic-minimum-income.605034/

[fides' Jack]

5 hours ago, Dennis Tate said:

An UNCONDITIONAL BASIC MINIMUM INCOME would give added life to organizations that are attempting to help the homeless.... drug addicts....... alcoholics...... victims of the sex industry...victims of the gambling industry

How so?  I believe it would do exactly the opposite.  It would give addicts and victims more reason to be addicts and victims - as government money always has.  The government cannot fix people.  Only God's grace and practice of virtue will fix people.

5 hours ago, Dennis Tate said:

soon other nations will follow suit

The days are gone when other nations follow the USA's lead.  They now have no reason to.  

 

It's all moot, anyway.  The world economy is too far gone.  We have only had the first lick of the top of the iceberg of what awaits us.

[little2add]

11 hours ago, Dennis Tate said:

I am Pro - Life and I definitely think that an unconditional Basic Minimum Income to all citizens will positively alter the economy of The United States

The USA is over 31 trillion in debt

Your dream of “universal basic income” makes no Cents!

[Dennis Tate]

14 hours ago, fides' Jack said:

How so?  I believe it would do exactly the opposite.  It would give addicts and victims more reason to be addicts and victims - as government money always has.  The government cannot fix people.  Only God's grace and practice of virtue will fix people.

The days are gone when other nations follow the USA's lead.  They now have no reason to.  

 

It's all moot, anyway.  The world economy is too far gone.  We have only had the first lick of the top of the iceberg of what awaits us.

Thank you for this insightful reply but I am on a very different page in regards to the future of the United States.  There are things about Isaiah chapter forty five that cause me to believe that it is being fulfilled now.... and over these next ten years.  I believe that the next ten years will see the United States restored to a glory far, far, far, far, far beyond what she had at any time in the past.  

 

Here is some brilliant advice on how American Christians can approach these next seven days!

IT'S TIME TO TAKE OUR ELECTIONS AND OUR NATION BACK

JULIE GREEN MINISTRIES Published  November 1, 2022 124,435 Views

 

 

https://rumble.com/v1qh20w-its-time-to-take-our-elections-and-our-nation-back.html

7 hours ago, little2add said:

The USA is over 31 trillion in debt

Your dream of “universal basic income” makes no Cents!

It is important to compare the option of a Basic Minimum Income to what has been happening since Thomas Robert Malthus wrote Malthusian Catastrophe Theory.  

 

The Bill Gates "Innovation to zero" theory is founded on top of both the Al Gore Carbon Tax Theory as well as makes Bill Gates the Poster Boy for Neo-Malthusian thought and economic philosophy.

 

Quote

This event, called a Malthusian catastrophe (also known as a Malthusian trap, population trap, Malthusian check, Malthusian crisis, Malthusian spectre, or Malthusian crunch) occurs when population growth outpaces agricultural production, causing famine or war, resulting in poverty and depopulation.

Thomas Robert Malthus was an Anglican Priest who understood the implications of the brilliant statement on economics in Genesis chapter eleven BUT..... MALTHUS BELIEVED ONLY IN THE PESSIMISTIC ANGLE ON WHAT HUMANS COULD ACCOMPLISH IF THEY HAD A GOAL THAT THEY COULD agree on...... and would begin to trouble shoot in a common language how to accomplish that win, win, win, win, win, win goal!

 

"And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do." (Genesis 11)

 

Take a look at the Worgl Austria Local Money experiment that was conducted during the Great Depression to begin to get another angle on all of this.

Ecclesiastes 10:19
"A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things. "

 

http://www.whatcomwatch.org/php/WW_open.php?id=717

Quote

 

City in Austria Printed Local Currency

Worgl, like many other European towns and cities, was hit hard by the Great Depression. There was mass unemployment; four of the five local factories had closed, and the people were starving in the streets. Nobody had any money to buy anything. One of the features of an economic depression is that there is not enough money in circulation to ensure that people can meet their basic needs, and in the 1930s, the shortage of currency in many countries of the world became catastrophic.

The mayor of Worgl, together with local businessmen, decided to try to break this economic impasse by creating their own local currency. They printed and issued 60,000 Austrian shillings worth of local currency. These shillings could only be spent in Worgl, so they remained in the local community and were exchanged over and over again.

The positive impact was immediate and surprising to everyone. In only six weeks, unemployment disappeared, all the factories had reopened and everyone had food. For the inhabitants of Worgl, the economic depression was gone. This dramatic transformation became known as the “miracle of Worgl.” Surrounding towns, inspired by the success of Worgl, immediately started printing their own local currencies.

Sadly, the miracle did not last long. When the Austrian Central Bank heard about Worgl’s local currency, they initiated legal proceedings against the mayor and local businessmen. According to Austrian banking law, it was illegal for anyone except the Austrian Central Bank to issue money. The bank won the court case, and the mayor was ordered to shut down the local currency, which he did, under threat of imprisonment. The town then returned to the devastating economic depression of the 1930s, with all the human pain and suffering associated with this catastrophe. Factories closed, and once again, the people starved.

Alternative Currency in the U.S.

Irving Fisher, an American professor of economics at Yale University, visited Worgl before the local currency was suppressed and witnessed the ‘miracle’ firsthand. When he returned to the United States, Fisher spread the word by traveling and lecturing across the country, advocating the use of the Worgl ‘scrip’ everywhere. Inspired by his vision, hundreds of communities began issuing their own currency, and by 1934 there were over 1,000 local communities using ‘scrip’ throughout the U.S.

Every one of these communities experienced a tremendous rejuvenation of their local economies. They thrived while others suffered. Fisher then met with President Franklin D. Roosevelt, proposing the implementation of government-sanctioned local ‘scrip’ in every community in America. When FDR consulted with his top financial advisors and bankers, however, he was advised to shut all the ‘scrip’ systems down, which he did. Instead, he borrowed large amounts of money from bankers, at interest, and used it to pay for the Reconstruction Finance Corporation and the other work-creation projects, which collectively came to be known as the ‘New Deal.’ So ended the last widespread use of a local currency within the U.S.

This pattern of economic collapse and re-emergence of local currencies has occurred thousands of times in many parts of the world. When these currencies have failed or have been suppressed, banks have not always been to blame. Sometimes, local currencies fail because they have been badly designed or implemented. Sometimes, people lose interest in them when the mainstream economy recovers. But they have always returned in one form or another during times of economic failure.

Our present world situation is uniquely different. Despite a relatively prosperous and stable world economy, a quiet monetary revolution has been occurring around the globe over the last 20 years. Awareness is growing about the flaws in our current monetary system, and people are re-creating viable alternatives. We are witnessing for the first time the worldwide creation of money systems designed by the people who use them, instead of by central banks. 

Time Dollars in Whatcom County

 

 

[Dennis Tate]

Here is the article by Mr. Melvin Sickler that got me thinking in this direction when I first read this back in 1994.

 

http://www.cidpusa.org/lincoln_JFK.htm

 

Abraham Lincoln and John F. Kennedy
Two great presidents of the United States Assassinated for the cause of justice, Melvin Sickler

Quote

 

Abraham Lincoln

During the Civil War (1861-1865), President Lincoln needed money to finance the War from the North. The Bankers were going to charge him 24% to 36% interest. Lincoln was horrified and went away greatly distressed, for he was a man of principle and would not think of plunging his beloved country into a debt that the country would find impossible to pay back.

Eventually President Lincoln was advised to get Congress to pass a law authorizing the printing of full legal tender Treasury notes to pay for the War effort. Lincoln recognized the great benefits of this issue. At one point he wrote:

"... (we) gave the people of this Republic the greatest blessing they have ever had -- their own paper money to pay their own debts..."

Lincoln printed 400 million dollars worth of Greenbacks (the exact amount being $449,338,902), money that he delegated to be created, a debt-free and interest-free money to finance the War. It served as legal tender for all debts, public and private. He printed it, paid it to the soldiers, to the U.S. Civil Service employees, and bought supplies for war.

Shortly after that happened, "The London Times" printed the following: "If that mischievous financial policy, which had its origin in the North American Republic, should become indurated down to a fixture, then that Government will furnish its own money without cost.  That govern-ment must be destroyed, or it will destroy every monarchy on the globe." In retaliation

After this was published in "The London Times", the British Government, which was controlled by the London and other European Bankers, moved to support the Confederate South, hoping to defeat Lincoln and the Union, and destroy this government which they said had to be destroyed.

The Czar of Russia sent a portion of the Russian navy to the United States with orders that its admiral would operate under the command of Abraham Lincoln. These ships of the Russian navy then became a threat to the ships of the British navy which had intended to break the blockade and help the South.

The North won the War, and the Union was preserved. America remained as one nation.

Of course, the Bankers were not going to give in that easy, for they were determined to put an end to Lincoln's interest-free, debt-free Greenbacks. He was assassinated by an agent of the Bankers shortly after the War ended.

Thereafter, Congress revoked the Green-back Law and enacted, in its place, the National Banking Act. The national banks were to be privately owned and the national bank notes they issued were to be interest bearing. The Act also provided that the Greenbacks should be retired from circulation as soon as they came back to the Treasury in payment of taxes.

In 1972, the United States Treasury Department was asked to compute the amount of interest that would have been paid if that 400 million dollars would have been borrowed at interest instead of being issued by Abraham Lincoln. They did some computations, and a few weeks later, the United States Treasury Department said the United States Government saved 4 billion dollars in interest because Lincoln had created his own money. 

The Federal Reserve Act

There were changes in the money and banking laws for the next fifty years. Finally, in 1913, the Bankers were able to get their Federal Reserve Act passed through Congress which replaced the National Banking Act that had earlier replaced the Greenback Law. If the Government would have continued the policy of Abraham Lincoln, the warnings given in "The London Times" would have come to pass. America would be a debt-free nation, the most prosperous in the world. And the brains and the wealth of the world would have come to America.

But with this Federal Reserve Act being passed, Congress gave up Its power to create its own money that it was given in the United States Constitution, and gave this power over to private Bankers who called themselves the Federal Reserve. The Bankers had achieved their ultimate goal, for now the United States operated under a central bank that was privately owned. They now had the power to run the country by controlling the creation of the money, and were free to charge the interest they so desired.

As Mayer Anselm Rothschild once said: "Permit me to issue and control the money of a nation, and I care not who makes its laws..."

John F. Kennedy

No United States president since Abraham Lincoln dared to go against the system and create his own money, as many of these so-called elected presidents were actually only instruments or puppets of the Bankers. That is until President John F. Kennedy came into office.

On June 4th, 1963, President Kennedy signed a presidential document, called Exec-utive Order 11110, which further amended Executive Order 10289 of September 19th, 1951. This gave Kennedy, as President of the United States, legal clearance to create his own money to run the country, money that would belong to the people, an Interest and debt-free money. He had printed United States Notes, completely ignoring the Federal Reserve Notes from the private banks of the Federal Reserve.

Our records show that Kennedy issued $4,292,893,825 of cash money. It was obvious that Kennedy was out to under-mine the Federal Reserve System of the United States.  

 

 

Edited November 2, 2022 by Dennis Tate

[little2add]

1 hour ago, Dennis Tate said:

Malthusian Catastrophe Theory

first published in 1798?

bit of a stretch.  the economy has evolved some sense then.  

America has been in debt from the first shots of the Revolutionary War, and largely for three reasons:

1. running a large nation is expensive.
2. fighting wars is expensive.
3. in the beginning the early U.S. government didn't have the power to directly tax its citizens. 

The Treasury's published records go back to 1790, but U.S. debt began with the Revolutionary War. The fledgling United States issued loan certificates to governments in Europe to help pay for the war, and by the time official reports began in 1783 owed $43 million.

43 million has grown  to 31 trillion in a only 230 years. 

In conclusion, providing universal basic income would trigger a Malthusian catastrophe.

Edited November 2, 2022 by little2add

[Dennis Tate]

On 11/2/2022 at 5:19 AM, little2add said:

first published in 1798?

bit of a stretch.  the economy has evolved some sense then.  

America has been in debt from the first shots of the Revolutionary War, and largely for three reasons:

1. running a large nation is expensive.
2. fighting wars is expensive.
3. in the beginning the early U.S. government didn't have the power to directly tax its citizens. 

The Treasury's published records go back to 1790, but U.S. debt began with the Revolutionary War. The fledgling United States issued loan certificates to governments in Europe to help pay for the war, and by the time official reports began in 1783 owed $43 million.

43 million has grown  to 31 trillion in a only 230 years. 

In conclusion, providing universal basic income would trigger a Malthusian catastrophe.

That is what Mr. Bill Gates would want you to believe.....

He seems to be the poster boy for the modern version of Neo-Malthusian Economic Theory.

 

That is what George Soros would want you to believe as well.....

but there is far more to the topic and I believe that Bill and George want us to be IGNORANT of what President Lincoln accomplished through his Greenback Monetary Policy Experiment.  Apparently President John F. Kennedy was impressed by what Lincoln had done......

 

http://www.cidpusa.org/lincoln_JFK.htm

........

In 1972, the United States Treasury Department was asked to compute the amount of interest that would have been paid if that 400 million dollars would have been borrowed at interest instead of being issued by Abraham Lincoln. They did some computations, and a few weeks later, the United States Treasury Department said the United States Government saved 4 billion dollars in interest because Lincoln had created his own money. 

The Federal Reserve Act

There were changes in the money and banking laws for the next fifty years. Finally, in 1913, the Bankers were able to get their Federal Reserve Act passed through Congress which replaced the National Banking Act that had earlier replaced the Greenback Law. If the Government would have continued the policy of Abraham Lincoln, the warnings given in "The London Times" would have come to pass. America would be a debt-free nation, the most prosperous in the world. And the brains and the wealth of the world would have come to America.

But with this Federal Reserve Act being passed, Congress gave up Its power to create its own money that it was given in the United States Constitution, and gave this power over to private Bankers who called themselves the Federal Reserve. The Bankers had achieved their ultimate goal, for now the United States operated under a central bank that was privately owned. They now had the power to run the country by controlling the creation of the money, and were free to charge the interest they so desired.

As Mayer Anselm Rothschild once said: "Permit me to issue and control the money of a nation, and I care not who makes its laws..."

John F. Kennedy

No United States president since Abraham Lincoln dared to go against the system and create his own money, as many of these so-called elected presidents were actually only instruments or puppets of the Bankers. That is until President John F. Kennedy came into office.

On June 4th, 1963, President Kennedy signed a presidential document, called Exec-utive Order 11110, which further amended Executive Order 10289 of September 19th, 1951. This gave Kennedy, as President of the United States, legal clearance to create his own money to run the country, money that would belong to the people, an Interest and debt-free money. He had printed United States Notes, completely ignoring the Federal Reserve Notes from the private banks of the Federal Reserve.

Our records show that Kennedy issued $4,292,893,825 of cash money. It was obvious that Kennedy was out to under-mine the Federal Reserve System of the United States.

But it was only a few months later, In November of 1963, that the world received the shocking news of President Kennedy's assassination. President Kennedy must have had It in mind to repeal the Federal Reserve Act of 1913, and return back to the United States Congress the power to create its own money.

It is interesting to note that, only one day after Kennedy's assassination, all the United States notes, which Kennedy had issued, were called out of circulation. Was this through an executive order of the newly installed president, Lyndon B. Johnson? Was President Johnson afraid of the Bankers? Or was he one of their instruments? At any rate, all of the money President Kennedy had created was destroyed. And not a word was said to the American people.

A lesson to learn

There is much that can be learned from our past history. Here we are in 2003, and the United States is still operating under the Federal Reserve System. It has already plunged this country over six trillion dollars into debt -- Federal debt, (the total debt, including that of individuals and corporations, is over 20 trillion) a debt it will never be able to pay, and has been responsible for every kind corruption imaginable. Yet, barely a peep of protest can be heard from the American people.

The population at large must be educated on the Federal Reserve, and then unite together to put pressure on the Government to get the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 repealed. Otherwise, it will spell disaster for the United States.

Abraham Lincoln and John F. Kennedy both had the courage to stand up for principles and to fight for justice. They have both gone down in history as being true patriots of the United States. But do we, as citizens, have the courage to follow their example?

Melvin Sickler

This article was published in the Oct.-Nov.-December, 2003 issue of "Michael".