The culture barrier is real

[fides' Jack]

I'm fairly certain you're just trolling me at this point.

[little2add]

 

53 minutes ago, fides' Jack said:

“Go now and leave your life of sin.”

For God did not send the Son into the world in order to judge (to reject, to condemn, to pass sentence on) the world, but that the world might find salvation and be made safe and sound through Him. (John 3:17)

In Luke, Jesus says the same thing, but also warns against condemning others. “Do not judge, and you will not be judged; do not condemn, and you will not be condemned.” (Luke 6:37) God looks at the heart (1 Samuel 16:7).

Judging Others 

Throughout the gospels, Jesus ministered to many “sinners,” and received criticism from his disciples as well as from the Jewish leaders. For instance, Jesus calls Levi, a tax collector, to be a disciple. The new follower held a great banquet where notorious law breakers gathered. When the Pharisees and teachers of the law asked Jesus’ disciples about his behavior, Jesus told them that it is not the healthy who needed a doctor, but rather the sick (Luke 5:27-31).

Jesus is clear in his prohibition against judging others (Matthew 7:1-6; Luke 37-38). Oftentimes people are tempted to determine for themselves another’s guilt and announce a fate upon them. However, that role is for God alone (James 4:12). Believers are called to show mercy towards one another rather than judgement. 

9 minutes ago, little2add said:

Believers are called to show mercy towards one another rather than judgement. 

 

Edited July 1, 2022 by little2add

[fides' Jack]

I think you've misunderstood what "judging others" entails.  A general condemnation of homosexuality is always called for.  We ARE called to judge actions. 

Judging others entails judging the heart or status of grace in a specific individual, or identifiable individuals (by name).  I would never presume, though many others have on this site, to tell someone what they believe, or to tell them they are not in a state of grace, or to condemn them to hell for their sins.  I CAN and SHOULD warn them of the dangers of their sins.  And I CAN and SHOULD condemn homosexuality as a mortal sin that cries out to heaven for vengeance.  As a general rule, practicing homosexuals, and adulterers, and idolaters, and murderers, and liars, and even just the cowardly and unbelieving will NOT see eternal paradise.  Revelation 21:8

In fact, if you refuse to condemn homosexuality, and especially by appealing to a false interpretation of scripture - and one that's based on a postmodern understanding, rather than the traditional teaching of the Church, you risk committing grave matter, yourself.

[little2add]

3 hours ago, fides' Jack said:

In fact, if you refuse to condemn

 

“Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?

How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye?
 

You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye. 

 

[fides' Jack]

2 hours ago, little2add said:

You hypocrite

Irony much?

You're willing to correct others (even by misapplying scripture), just for correcting you, but you're unwilling to offer a correction of a serious moral calamity?

So, judging homosexuality bad, but homosexuality itself good.  Is that what I should take away from this?

[little2add]

On 6/29/2022 at 4:51 AM, little2add said:

IDK, there’s nothing wrong with two adult people of the same sex falling in love and having a  relationship.

Get your mind out of the gutter.  I didn’t say anything about marriage

[fides' Jack]

3 minutes ago, little2add said:

Get your mind out of the gutter.  I didn’t say anything about marriage

I noticed specifically that you didn't mention marriage in your earlier post.  I thought about it for a bit and realized that it doesn't matter.  For two people of the same sex to "fall in love" with each other and have a relationship based on that is wrong.  In fact, it's more "in the gutter" than the legal contract of marriage is.

For clarification, I realized when I first read that post about the "relationship" that you were referring to a "chaste" relationship.  But that kind of relationship is impossible, because any relationship, even sexless, that is based on homosexual attraction, is by definition, not chaste.

Edited July 5, 2022 by fides' Jack
grammar

[little2add]

Jesus tells us to be merciful and tells us how God will respond to those who are merciful.  “Blessed are the merciful, for they will receive mercy.” (Matthew 5:7).  If we are merciful, we will not judge others or condemn them.

Jesus tells us to be meek (Matthew 5:5).  “Meek” is not a common English word today.  The Greek word used in this verse can also be translated “kind” or “gentle”.  If we are kind and gentle, we will not judge others or condemn them.

Jesus tells us to be humble.  (Too many times to list here.[1])  If we are humble, we will not judge others or condemn them.

Jesus tells us to forgive others (Matthew 6:14-15).  If we forgive others, we will not judge them or condemn them.

Most importantly, Jesus tells us to love others (Mark 12:28-34; Luke 10:25-37).  If we love others, we will not judge them or condemn them.

How do we stand against those who behave in ways that are opposite to the behavior Jesus requires from his followers, without judging or condemning that person? 

Answer – we stand against the behavior, not the person.  

[fides' Jack]

1 hour ago, little2add said:

If we are merciful, we will not judge others or condemn them.

Not necessarily true.

1 hour ago, little2add said:

The Greek word used in this verse can also be translated “kind” or “gentle”.  If we are kind and gentle, we will not judge others or condemn them.

That's not what "meek" means.  Nor is the conclusion necessarily true.

1 hour ago, little2add said:

If we are humble, we will not judge others or condemn them.

Not necessarily true.

1 hour ago, little2add said:

If we forgive others, we will not judge them or condemn them.

Not necessarily true.

1 hour ago, little2add said:

If we love others, we will not judge them or condemn them.

Not necessarily true.

1 hour ago, little2add said:

How do we stand against those who behave in ways that are opposite to the behavior Jesus requires from his followers, without judging or condemning that person? 

Answer – we stand against the behavior, not the person.  

Precisely and exactly true.  Which is another way of saying what I already said regarding what the true nature of "judging" is.  And it is why the act of "judging" requires an object to be a specific person, or specific persons (not a class or group of people).  It is also why, if you read my posts carefully in response to yours on this topic, you'll notice that I have neither judged nor condemned.

Saying "practicing homosexuals will go to hell" is neither judgment nor condemnation, nor is it untrue.  Saying, "Fred is a practicing homosexual, and as such he will go to hell" IS judgment AND condemnation.  Warning Fred that his actions warrant eternal damnation is also neither judgment nor condemnation, but is Christian charity.  He may feel judged and condemned, especially if he is very much given to his vice, but feelings are not truth.

[little2add]

On 6/28/2022 at 2:51 PM, fides' Jack said:

both gay marriage and baby murder are both sins that cry

1 hour ago, fides' Jack said:

It is also why, if you read my posts carefully in response to yours on this topic, you'll notice that I have neither judged nor condemned.

to Heaven for vengeance,

 

Not necessarily true.

 

what did you mean when you say vengeance?

[fides' Jack]

I do not say vengeance, the Church does.

This is a pretty good primer:

https://taylormarshall.com/2012/07/four-sins-that-cry-to-heaven-america.html

Edited July 6, 2022 by fides' Jack
clarification

[Lilllabettt]

20 hours ago, little2add said:

 

what did you mean when you say vengeance?

The 4 sins that cry out to heaven for vengeance are the most evil of mortal sins. They are worse than the 7 deadly sins. They are:

1. The blood of Abel (murder, especially of those who have a right to expect protection - the unborn, parents, brothers, friends, guests)

2.  Sodomy (abusive sexual acts including PIA, bestiality and rape)

3. Oppression of the poor (the cry of the foreigner, the slave, the widow and the orphan pierces heaven)

4. Abuse of laborers (defrauding;  witholding wages etc.) 

"Vengeance is mine, and I will repay" saith the Lord

 

[little2add]

3 hours ago, Lilllabettt said:

On 7/5/2022 at 8:27 PM, little2add said:

 

The 4 sins that cry out to heaven for

I have to admit those are some really bad sins.    But not the gravest

abortion

Adultery

pedophilia

just to name a few that are grieve….

 

 

See : 

 

 

Edited July 7, 2022 by little2add

[fides' Jack]

1 hour ago, little2add said:

I have to admit those are some really bad sins.    But not the gravest

abortion

Adultery

pedophilia

just to name a few that are grieve….

All 3 of those would be considered among the 4 sins that cry out to heaven for vengeance.  Adultery and pedophilia would be considered forms of sodomy, at least according to the link I posted.

Personally, I've always believed that sins of sacrilege are greater than these, however.  I don't know that it's true that these are the worst sins.  But they are among the worst.  

I've heard it said that the 10 Commandments offer a scale of severity, meaning that worshipping idols or taking God's name in vain is worse than murder.  I don't know - that could be true.

God bless you, friend.

[little2add]

Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen.

Amen

 

This is the way