Roe v Wade may be overturned?

[Anastasia13]

On 5/7/2022 at 1:27 PM, debc said:

Al

Also with all due respect, I don't think contraception is the evil but the hookup culture and lack of respect of women made my daughter's lives in 20's lonely. I don't know why so many think this is "fun". Also you can't ban something that most religions and people do not think is bad. Contraception might not be for some Catholics but for others, even very religious groups of Christians and Jews, not "evil". I don't judge them and wont go there with abortion debate.

I hope like with most things, when you get so far out in one area, you pull back. Kids fooled around for many centuries, premartial sex is not new but the "anything goes" has made many men not look at marriage or relationships as long lasting. No one fights for their marriage, no one is taught "boring can be good", you need to work at things to make them work. All marriages have bad periods, some short, some longer.  No one should as an old Catholic woman told me, be told "you made your bed, you're married to this abusive alcoholic for life" by a priest. She kicked him out but never got an annulment, the rules changing every decade. No one should feel stuck but yes, it's too easy to just want a change of scenery.

You can't have a woman have a baby she doesn't want and not care about how it is raised or how it is treated. My mom knew women in the 60's who were awful mom's having children they didn't want, they stayed married but were miserable. There is so many things that a broad brush will every cover and so many intricacies. When Sisters of Life help a singe mom, they don't judge, they love, but no one loves the woman long term usually. As the child grows and needs help, working at a low paying job, mom will always need some help. We need good child care for children and education so a mom can support her kids. I don't agree with forever help but if you don't give a good base, they will falter. We never do things with much thought, policies etc. Some of them have me scratching my head.

My friends in England have good healthcare, no complaints, good childcare and she gets a year off from her teaching job to get settled after baby was born. Nothing is perfect but when she was here was shocked at what we pay for insurance, then have copays and hardly any time off for children. Prayer and more prayer for better decisions by all, laws and personally.

God, that’s like what I wish more people-life people realized. THANK YOU. Those women need help if they are going to do anything more as a mom than vaginal or c-section birth.

On 5/7/2022 at 4:46 PM, debc said:

Yes, the VA....very sad.

I was all over, I meant to edit but realized I'd be late to church. Going out for Mother's Day so went to 430 today. : )

I do feel there are no easy answers, I don't think anyone should be trapped with an abusive spouse but I think the church is more helpful in that area now. We need to make more careful choices with our spouses and talk more, not text, really talk about values and what we want in life, not vacations we want to take or houses we want to live in. We lost something over the years, not everyone but many young are just lost and I think very unhappy.

I think parents have to do a much better job with their sons, not just teaching daughters how to act but their sons too. It's not manly to be macho and act tough. My gentle, soft spoken dad taught me more about love, honesty and how to treat others and taught my brother to always respect women, any woman. Some in my family thought "certain types" of women shouldn't be the same but you can't do that. You show others how to act, what some do isn't the issue. It's hard with peer pressure but not impossible. A young woman once told my male friend, "You became my friend because you saw me as a person, not a body" She never had that before.

Money with people in need is a tough one but promising a mom with a pregnancy help to have her not abort and not address how she should live and how she can have respect for herself and baby has to be part of it. Many single moms will tell me it's not easy, it's not fun and some work 2 jobs to make ends meet. Then they are judged for not being home more, if they work one job and take food stamps, they are judged for that. I hear (and correct) coworkers who make comments on families or individuals on medicaid. Stop judging, if you make 30,000 a year and have a kid, you can't pay high insurance costs. We judge a lot without knowing someone's situation. My friends work with the poor and homeless and see and hear more than most. We don't value lives not born or born and on hard times. We always will have poor and needy but Christ still wanted us to help them.

I do believe you can mandate murder but contraception, no. What individuals do in that regard is their conscience and for many religion doesn't enter into their decisions. One day at a time.

I do hope for my grandchildren (hopefully blessed in the future) and all of us, the world gets kinder, more loving and less judgemental. I pray not so much for laws to change, but hearts because we break laws every day. Grace had me see things differently over many years and I'm not sure how it works, some get it praying, some get it who think they are atheist. God knows how and why and we can only hope they respond to it.

I hope everyone has a blessed Sunday and week ahead. Happy Mom's day to all mom's

 

My mom had a coworker back in the day who had an abortion because she didn’t have any support. When I brought it up here in the past to ask how it should have been addressed as a reflection of a systemic issue, I was just told abortion is wrong, with no acknowledgement of the rest of the situation. I think that reflects my biggest criticism of the prolife movement. Life matters from conception to natural death, and everything in between. We need to live like it.

Edited May 9, 2022 by Anastasia13

[little2add]

11 hours ago, Anastasia13 said:

acknowledgement of the rest of the situation

A human being is a blessing, sure raising a child is a tremendous amount of  work and sacrifice and can be overwhelming at times, but his or her value is worth more than all earthly treasures.  

[Anastasia13]

8 hours ago, little2add said:

A human being is a blessing, sure raising a child is a tremendous amount of  work and sacrifice and can be overwhelming at times, but his or her value is worth more than all earthly treasures.  

❤️ That value is what makes them worth the sacrifices and worth helping those in need.

[Didacus]

I detesy the way pro-choice zelots paint pro-life as being anti-woman, wanting to control, just being pro-birth for the sake of being pro-birth.

They simply throw red-herring arguments all over building us into straw-men and then claim themselves victor of the 'argument'.

There is not a single claim from the pro-choice crowd that cannot be awsered, and not a single fundamental affirmation from pro-life that can be genuinely, honestly and logically refuted.  The only way pro-choicers can make anything stand is be demonizing their opposition onto exhaustion.

That is their sole strategy 

[little2add]

I.E.: 

MSNBC, CBS, ABC and more predict end to interracial marriage, civil rights after Roe v. Wade draft leak

https://www.foxnews.com/media/msnbc-cbs-abc-interracial-marriage-civil-rights-roe-wade-abortion

 

[Didacus]

30 minutes ago, little2add said:

I.E.: 

MSNBC, CBS, ABC and more predict end to interracial marriage, civil rights after Roe v. Wade draft leak

https://www.foxnews.com/media/msnbc-cbs-abc-interracial-marriage-civil-rights-roe-wade-abortion

 

There is specific language in the leak distinguishing abortion for all those.  Its another detraction to try and garner unwarranted alarm.

[dUSt]

It just shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the pro-life stance. Pro-life is not anti-rights, it's PRO-rights for every human life.

[little2add]

Only 7 of the 59 countries allow elective abortions after 20 weeks, the group found:
 Canada, China, Netherlands, North Korea, Singapore, the United States and Vietnam.
 

[fides' Jack]

Wow - so the US and Canada are in a very, very short list of countries that allows post 20-week abortions, which includes China, North Korea, and Vietnam.

That's one of the saddest things I've ever heard.

Edited May 20, 2022 by fides' Jack

[Didacus]

1 hour ago, fides' Jack said:

Wow - so the US and Canada are in a very, very short list of countries that allows post 20-week abortions, which includes China, North Korea, and Vietnam.

That's one of the saddest things I've ever heard.

Ya, Canada is becoming a horrid place of woke liberalism... it is impossible for a nation to survive under such conditions.  I am convinced that Canada will likwly collaspe into obliveon within 2 generation.

[little2add]

8 hours ago, fides' Jack said:

one of the saddest things I've ever heard.

Truly  

[Luigi]

I've typed up 10 points regarding abortion, Roe v. Wade, and so forth. These aren't necessarily philosophical points, or in any real logical order. Rather, they're what I would say in response to statements that are commonly thrown around by pro-abortion folks.

It's three pages long so I don't want to post it here - or I don't think I should. But I also think maybe I should post them so that the rest of the Pham can add their own statements and rebuttals, so we can all prep ourselves to refute these canards in the coming days. 

But maybe there's a better way to do that? Dust - what do you think? Is there some way to post a Word document for everyone to read, add to, respond to? I see that I can attach a file, but I don't think folks would be able to add to that, would they? Maybe we should start a thread for "What would you say in response to the claim that...?" I haven't studied Aquinas, but apparently he structured a lot of his writing in Q & A format - that's kind of what this is. 

[Didacus]

Post your points - always good tp share info like that!

Cheers

[Luigi]

I think I will, but I think I'll post them as separate topics in The Debate Table. That way, 1. they won't get all tangled together; 2. each thread could get fairly long (mostly because the posts might be long), so keeping them separate might help people follow them better (or find something they read previously but now want to address); 3. they could get contentious, so The Debate Table might be the better choice here.

[Luigi]

I've posted 11 threads in the Debate Table. The purpose is to stimulate discussion of, and generate possible responses to, common arguments in support of abortion. We can give more accurate and true responses to these arguments if we think about them in advance and practice saying them - we'll have the words ready at hand rather than thrashing around for the right words. 

My list is by no means definitive. My responses are by no means definitive. If you have other common arguments you'd like to refute, or other arguments to add to mine, feel free to do so. If you don't like my refuting arguments, you don't have to use them.