"call No Man Your Father"

[ReformationNow]

In Matthew 23:9, Christ tells us to call "No man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven."

Why do Catholics call priests 'Father' and call the Pope 'Holy Father'?

[thessalonian]

Why does Paul Call himself father in 1 Cor 4:15 if to call any man father in a litteral fashion as you suggest is a sin?

1 Corinthians 4:15

For if you were to have countless tutors in Christ, yet you would not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel.

Why is abraham called the father of Jew and Gentile in Romans 4? Speaking of Abraham it says:

Romans 4:11

and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them,

I think if you look at the context of Matt 23:9 it can only be taken as hyperbole. We cannot call a man father in the same sense that we call God Father, i.e. as the source and summit of all that we have and own and are here on this earth. Certainly there is no problem with calling your male paternal parent father. For the scriptures say "honor your father and mother".

Thanks for the question but it has been handled many times over. We call a priest father because he is responsible for our spiritual well being like a human father is responsible for our physical well being. But this, not apart from God the Father but through the grace we recieve from his son Jesus Christ. Thus it is subordinate to the Father in heaven and not a violation of Mt. 23:9. As for Holy Father, once again it is subordinate to God the Father. Holy means in this case dedicated to God. Many things and people are called holy in the scriptures so attaching the adjective to the title of the Pope is not problematic.

Blessings

[ReformationNow]

A hyperbole? A hyperbole is an exaggeration.

[cmotherofpirl]

and?

[ironmonk]

The context of St. Matt 23:9 is that the Jews had many sects. Now, Christ brought One Faith... Unity... The Catholic Church, with Christ as it's Head, and the Pope as the Head Bishop.

1 John 2:1

My children, 1 I am writing this to you so that you may not commit sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous one.

2 He is expiation for our sins, and not for our sins only but for those of the whole world.

3 The way we may be sure 2 that we know him is to keep his command ments.

4 Whoever says, "I know him," but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

5 But whoever keeps his word, the love of God is truly perfected in him. This is the way we may know that we are in union with him:

6 whoever claims to abide in him ought to live (just) as he lived.

7 3Beloved, I am writing no new commandment to you but an old commandment that you had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word that you have heard.

8 And yet I do write a new commandment to you, which holds true in him and among you, 4 for the darkness is passing away, and the true light is already shining.

9 Whoever says he is in the light, yet hates his brother, is still in the darkness.

10 Whoever loves his brother remains in the light, and there is nothing in him to cause a fall.

11 Whoever hates his brother is in darkness; he walks in darkness and does not know where he is going because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

12 5 I am writing to you, children, because your sins have been forgiven for his name's sake. 6

13 I am writing to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning. I am writing to you, young men, because you have conquered the evil one.

14 I write to you, children, because you know the Father. I write to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning. I write to you, young men, because you are strong and the word of God remains in you, and you have conquered the evil one.

15 Do not love the world or the things of the world. 7If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

16 For all that is in the world, sensual lust, 8 enticement for the eyes, and a pretentious life, is not from the Father but is from the world.

17 Yet the world and its enticement are passing away. But whoever does the will of God remains forever.

18 Children, it is the last hour; 9 and just as you heard that the antichrist was coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. Thus we know this is the last hour.

19 They went out from us, but they were not really of our number; 10 if they had been, they would have remained with us. Their desertion shows that none of them was of our number.

20 But you have the anointing that comes from the holy one, 11 and you all have knowledge.

21 I write to you not because you do not know the truth but because you do, and because every lie is alien to the truth.

22 12Who is the liar? Whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Whoever denies the Father and the Son, this is the antichrist.

23 No one who denies the Son has the Father, but whoever confesses the Son has the Father as well.

24 Let what you heard from the beginning remain in you. If what you heard from the beginning remains in you, then you will remain in the Son and in the Father. 13

25 And this is the promise that he made us: eternal life.

26 I write you these things about those who would deceive you.

27 As for you, the anointing that you received from him remains in you, so that you do not need anyone to teach you. But his anointing teaches you about everything and is true and not false; just as it taught you, remain in him.

28 14And now, children, remain in him, so that when he appears we may have confidence and not be put to shame by him at his coming.

29 If you consider that he is righteous, you also know that everyone who acts in righteousness is begotten by him.

Phil. 2:22 - Paul calls Timothy's service to him as a son serves a "father."

1 Thess. 2:11- Paul compares the Church elders' ministry to the people like a father with his children.

1 Tim. 1:2,18; 2 Tim. 1:2-3 - Paul calls Timothy his true "child" in the faith and his son.

Titus 1:4 - Paul calls Titus his true "child" in a common faith. Priests are our spiritual fathers in the family of God.

Philemon 10 - Paul says he has become the "father" of Onesimus.

Heb. 12:7,9 - emphasizes our earthly "fathers." These are not just biological but also spiritual (elders of the Church).

1 Peter 5:13 - Peter refers to himself as father by calling Mark his "son."

1 John 2:1,13,14 - John calls the elders of the Church "fathers."

1 John 2:1,18,28; 3:18; 5:21; 3 John 4 - John calls members of the Church "children."

1 Macc. 2:65 - Mattathias the priest tells his sons that Simeon will be their "father."

The Pope is the Vicar of Christ... meaning that while Christ is away, the Vicar has the authority over the Church... It was the Pope who received the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven... Vicar meaning is similar to Vice President.

The Pope is guided by God when speaking Ex Cathedra.

The real question is, why don't non-Catholics call their pastors father?

If they were truely pastors, wouldn't they be Father's in Christ?

God Bless,

ironmonk

[Dave]

ReformationNow:

Jesus also told us not to call anyone "Master" or "Teacher." If someone took your interpretation and ran with it, it would follow that you wouldn't be able to address any man as "Mr. So-and-so" because "Mister" is derived from "Master." Nor could you address any doctor as "Dr. So-and-so" because "Doctor" comes from the Greek or Latin word (can't remember which) for "Teacher."

[jasJis]

So what do you call your dad?

[thessalonian]

A hyperbole? A hyperbole is an exaggeration.

So was Paul sinning when he called himself father and when he called abraham father of us all?

[ReformationNow]

So was Paul sinning when he called himself father and when he called abraham father of us all?

I am suggesting no such thing. Don't be putting words in my mouth. I asked the question because it was brought up Sunday during a discussion at my Church.

As for my remark where I defined a hyperbole, I was making it clear that a hyperbole is an exaggerated statement.

[dUSt]

ReformationNow,

Do you agree that using that verse as an argument against Catholicism isn't valid, as it's taking it out of context? The teaching behind that verse is better related to "thou shalt have no other Gods before me".

[thessalonian]

I am suggesting no such thing. Don't be putting words in my mouth. I asked the question because it was brought up Sunday during a discussion at my Church.

As for my remark where I defined a hyperbole, I was making it clear that a hyperbole is an exaggerated statement.

Not putting words in your mouth at all. Just asking a question like you did of us. Did your church group consider the verses that I presented in coming to a conclusion about whether the Catholic Church violates Mt. 23:9 or not? Or is the context of your question, lets send Reformation now out to that Catholic message board to see how they justify this seemingly unbiblical behavior and let's give them a fair shake. After all we only have varying opinions of scripture and we may be wrong in some cases. ;)

[ReformationNow]

ReformationNow,

Do you agree that using that verse as an argument against Catholicism isn't valid, as it's taking it out of context? The teaching behind that verse is better related to "thou shalt have no other Gods before me".

Yes.

[dUSt]

Here's a thought...

If we were to take this verse literally, then I contend it's more appropriate to call a priest father than your own biological father.

After all, a priest is a representative of Christ, where your biological father is simply a sperm donor.

:)

[ReformationNow]

Not putting words in your mouth at all. Just asking a question like you did of us. Did your church group consider the verses that I presented in coming to a conclusion about whether the Catholic Church violates Mt. 23:9 or not? Or is the context of your question, lets send Reformation now out to that Catholic message board to see how they justify this seemingly unbiblical behavior and let's give them a fair shake. After all we only have varying opinions of scripture and we may be wrong in some cases.

Actually, I was asking it for my own benefit. And also to share a more clear picture of what Catholics believe at our next SS meeting. I'm the only person in the class who has any direct contact with Catholics on a weekly basis.

[dUSt]

Oh, cool. You agree. lol

Praise God, we can agree on some things!

Now... is it butter or Parkay?