Little boys playing with "girl" toys

[Catholicmom97]

As a catholic, I was raised with a very clear understanding of certain gender stereotypes. Now that I'm older and married with 4 boys of my own, some of the stereotypes seem a little nonsensical. Such as only girls do the cleaning, child rearing. Only men do the work, and boys can't like certain things or play with certain toys.... My boys age from 8 weeks to 4 1/2. My older 3 are very "boyish" without me even specifically teaching them how "boys" act. It just came naturally to them I guess haha.

But there are certain things other people try to push on my sons that make me wonder "why are you telling this to a toddler?" My father in law is constantly calling my sons "sissy's" and saying "only girls do that".. One time when my oldest two were 3 months and a little over 1 years old my FIL made jokes about how i dress them " gay.." They were wearing little boys white romper outfits with palm trees and flamigos while we were in florida.. Another outfit they were just wearing matching red and gray over alls... I'm scared hes going to give them a "macho man" complex.

My grandfather bought my 1 1/2 year old a baby doll and my mother told him "thats a girls toy!!" And I was shocked because there was nothing "girly" about it. It was a BABY doll. No big girly eyes, no dresses or anything just a little baby doll. My 3 1/2 year old is very very boyish, obsessed with spiderman and other super heros, but I noticed he loves to watch on YouTube kids a little show where this girl plays with these little Anna and elsa dolls, just a normal kid  playing but he loves it. It got me thinking what's this whole issue about boys and "girl toys".. obviously I'm not allowing my son to wear dresses and put on makeup, but the way we raise our boys to think certain things will make them "gay" is really just harmful to their mental development and how they learn to act and treat other people when they're older. I think there are more Important things to teach our boys than "thats for girls" ... such as, how to actually be a man. like how to pray, How to talk to other people with respect, How to communicate in a healthy way and not to let anger control you. How to be kinder to people and not bully. 

Dont get me wrong, Yes. there are very big important differences between a man and a woman and their roles in society and as catholics in the church. Boys can't be girls, and girls can't be boys. but I think we focus on the wrong things when we teach this to our kids.

What do you guys think about a little boy playing with "girlish" toys?

[Anastasia13]

I recently read that a lot of trans people have very strong binary ideas of gender. I don’t know how extensive it is, but I think being tender instead of rough or liking pantaloons over skirts should make a person feel like less of the sex God made them.

[Catholicmom97]

1 minute ago, Anastasia13 said:

I think being tender instead of rough or liking pantaloons over skirts should make a person feel like less of the sex God made them.

I'm not understanding what you mean here. Could you elaborate?

[Anastasia13]

I guess that is to say I think a little overlap should be ok as long as the kid knows it doesn’t define them.

Edited March 29, 2022 by Anastasia13
Can add more but just sat down to dinner.

[debc]

One of the reasons I didn’t pick one Catholic school over another in my neighborhood was that one of them had, and this was back in the early 1990s late 1980s, a girl section in the kindergarten any boys section which I thought was absurd. Maybe because I grew up playing with just boys pretty much until I got into grade school and then it was both, I liked trucks and I liked dolls and I liked make-believe and I like building forts etc. The guys I played with would help me play house they would also have their G.I. Joe dolls and I would have my Barbie dolls and they would have adventures together outside in our forts. I never bought into the stereotypes that some try to put on children. My son like playing with an oven and if he grew up to be a chef that’s fine with me. If my daughter wanted to learn how to build a shelf, and take care of herself if she was alone that’s also fine with me.

What I don’t like, is when somebody deliberately forces a child to play with something when they don’t want to. They have shown that very young babies well like certain things if left alone because that’s just what they like. But to force a child or shame out of ignorance is not right either. I feel very blessed that even though I grew up in an Italian family in the 60s and 70s, they were pretty progressive for their age and so were my cousins.

Edited March 29, 2022 by debc

[benedictaaugustine]

Let them play with what they want to play with. When a parent or adult takes away the toy or shames the kid, it becomes internalized and the “forbidden candy”. Let kids explore and have fun. Most kids aren’t thinking “wow, a Barbie doll. Maybe I’m a girl.” And also, different stages of developement makes it normal to explore differences/similarities. To gravitate towards mommy and what she does, and then start differentiating between girls and boys etc. oh I could go on a RANT about the things your FIL is saying. First off, “sissy” really? To a baby/toddler? Men who show uncomfortability with other boys/men showing any feminine traits or liking for any “feminine” things have a lot of internalized shame and fear. Also, it teaches the boys that “femininity” or “things girls do/like” is bad and shameful. Who does that hurt? Girls. The healthiest men and relationships I’ve seen don’t give a whit about gender stereotypes. When you’re comfortable in your gender, you aren’t threatened by doing “manly” or “girly” stuff. The men in my family will help with the cooking and cleaning becaaauuseeee….It’s the helpful, manly, Christian thing to do to help and serve your wife   It’s not degrading to you as a man to do “woman” chores. Makes no sense, and comes across as an insecure, blustering thing to do. I know manly friends who are literal lumberjacks, chopping wood with their beards, yet they like cats and poetry and they’re gentle and lovely cooks. Yet they are the most masculine men I’ve come across, without bluster and insecurity. They are solid. They love their women friends and they are in touch with their feminine side, while still being solidly masculine. 
so in the long short, no. Let your kids play with whatever they want. Anyway, if boys have baby dolls or play with their sister’s Barbie dolls, they typically make them go to war lol. If you’re pregnant with a new baby, help them play with a baby doll and learn to change their diapers. This is human and will help them be good brothers and husbands. 
One more point to drive it home: never have I come across a man who grew up with a solid, secure, masculine relationship who had a dad/mom shaming them in childhood for any crossing the “line” in “stereotyped play”. Actually, a lot of my gay friends are the ones that had their dads shaming them or beating them if they caught them with “girl” toys. They internalized, and hid. Let your kids be kids. Teach them positive masculinity. Don’t teach them masculinity by just saying “boys don’t do that, boys don’t do that”. What DO they do? Show them. 

Edited March 29, 2022 by benedictaaugustine
Grammar

[benedictaaugustine]

19 minutes ago, benedictaaugustine said:

When you’re comfortable in your gender, you aren’t threatened by doing “manly” or “girly” stuff. The men in my family will help with the cooking and cleaning becaaauuseeee….It’s the helpful, manly, Christian thing to do to help and serve your wife   It’s not degrading to you as a man to do “woman” chores.

Wanted to add and press this point, I cannot say it enough. If you are a man, and you believe that doing chores, or playing tea party with your daughters, makes you “less of a man”. Congrats. You are not secure in your masculinity. You believe that doing things defines your masculinity and threatens it. If my man is secure, he can do ANYTHING without fear or shame. Because he is secure in who he is. Helping with laundry, hugging his little boys and girls, learning how to do his daughter’s hair, does not threaten or move him from his masculinity. He is secure. He can help his wife and children because he knows who he is. I’m sorry, but I would not marry a man who won’t play with his girls, or who will shame his boys for wearing “pink” (it’s just a color) because he is fearful of what it might do to his masculinity. That is insecure. 
anyway. I guess that added bit doesn’t have anything to do with your situation, went on a little tangent. But I’d be careful letting your FIL call your sons names or shame them. That’s sad and wrong. 

[Catholicmom97]

52 minutes ago, benedictaaugustine said:

But I’d be careful letting your FIL call your sons names or shame them. That’s sad and wrong. 

Yes I'm scared it'll give them a complex or think if they show any type of emotions they'll be in trouble or called names

[benedictaaugustine]

7 minutes ago, Catholicmom97 said:

Yes I'm scared it'll give them a complex or think if they show any type of emotions they'll be in trouble or called names

Shaming is never a good thing  

[truthfinder]

In certain parts of history, and I'm speaking just for the Western world, totally normal to dress boys and girls in dresses until the boys were old enough to be "breeched" - that is wear their first pair of breeches/trousers.

Jobs and roles have been gendered over the years: take making beer for example.  For several centuries, beer making was associated as a woman's role.  Then there was a shift in the gender roles not only around making beer, but also of the places where it was sold and consumed, and thus beer-making became a pretty exclusively male thing.  Certain parts of farm work used to be gendered a certain way: in the 19th century, many farms considered the dairy and the chickens to be women's work.  It was only when there was a move in industrialization and larger scale production that these became 'men's work.' These sorts of shifts happen all throughout the years.  It also happens with emotions: there was a pretty good period between the 12th-18th century when men who cried were seen as exhibiting pure emotion, and especially when connected with praying, was looked on as something very good.  The manliest men were those who would cry.  Men crying these days, although the discourse around it is starting to change, kinda freaks people out. 

As the other commenters have already stated, this preoccupation with men's work/women's work/toys/colours etc usually has more to do with the insecurity of the speaker.  Kids are so young and innocent of this sort of conditioning, so I think you are right to be concerned about the messages your children are getting from family members.